crystallinedrops
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So I'm thinking of going into a specific surgical specialty but it's highly competitive and I was wondering what other ST3s (besides surgical ones) I could apply for with CST rather than CMT? I think anaesthetics is one, are there any others?
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crystallinedrops
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(Original post by ecolier)
A lot of surgical specialties at ST3 is actually less competitive than going into CST at CT1. I don't know why you are so pessimistic!

(e.g. for 2018 entry, CST CT1 was 2.94 to 1; T&O ST3 was 2.88 to 1; Urology ST3 was 2.66 to 1; General and Vascular surgery was 1.54 to 1)

You are right that you can do anaesthetics after CST of course. Have you thought about locuming? What do you want to do?
I want to go into T&O and 2.88:1 is still quite competitive ): That's why I'm trying to look for alternatives, and I don't want to locum because I just want to get into an ST3 programme as soon as possible after finishing so my training doesn't take ages.Thanks for replying!
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Democracy
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(Original post by crystallinedrops)
So I'm thinking of going into a specific surgical specialty but it's highly competitive and I was wondering what other ST3s (besides surgical ones) I could apply for with CST rather than CMT? I think anaesthetics is one, are there any others?
A&E:

https://www.rcem.ac.uk/RCEM/Exams_Tr...es/DRE-EM.aspx

I'm not aware that you can apply for anaesthetics ST3 direct from CST - do you have a source for this by any chance? It sounds very unlikely.

Although it's not a direct transfer to ST3, I think some surgeons finish CST and then switch to histopathology or radiology - both of which are five year run-through training programmes so equivalent to starting at ST3 (in terms of timing, not pay ).
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crystallinedrops
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(Original post by ecolier)
:yes: I thought so too, the person specification says: https://specialtytraining.hee.nhs.uk...esia%20ST3.pdf (Page 3 stated additional requirements = CST / CMT etc.)

It stated in Page 2 for ST3 anaesthetics:


  • Have [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]by time of intended start date of which at least eighteen months is in Anaesthetics.


:dontknow:
Yeah that struck me as odd as well lol. So A&E and anaesthetics I guess....thanks for the help!
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Democracy
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(Original post by ecolier)
:yes: I thought so too, until I read the person specification: https://specialtytraining.hee.nhs.uk...esia%20ST3.pdf (Page 3)
Well...that person specification doesn't state that you can transfer to anaesthetics ST3 having only done core surgical training, with no prior anaesthetics/ICM experience (which is all the OP has told us so far). It, does, however, also specify the necessary anaesthetics/ICM/FRCA criteria you need to meet, very little of which can be gained in Core Surgical Training surely?

I think what you're referring to on page 3 is only listed as "desirable criteria"?

I really don't think CST alone can be used as a direct route to reg level anaesthetics...
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Chwirkytheappleboy
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You definitely cannot do ST3 Anaesthetics without doing either Core Anaesthetic Training OR ACCS Anaesthetics. Imagine being the Anaesthetics Reg without being able to intubate!

You also have to have done the Primary FRCA before you can apply for ST3 Anaesthetics, and you’re not allowed to sit the Primary FRCA OSCE/SOE until you’ve done your IAC (Initial Assessment of Competence - it’s what all Novice Anaeshetists do in their first 3 months of Anaesthetics Training where they’re literally not allowed to be left on their own at any time).

If you want to do Anaesthetics you’ll have to start from CT1 again
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crystallinedrops
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(Original post by Chwirkytheappleboy)
You definitely cannot do ST3 Anaesthetics without doing either Core Anaesthetic Training OR ACCS Anaesthetics. Imagine being the Anaesthetics Reg without being able to intubate!

You also have to have done the Primary FRCA before you can apply for ST3 Anaesthetics, and you’re not allowed to sit the Primary FRCA OSCE/SOE until you’ve done your IAC (Initial Assessment of Competence - it’s what all Novice Anaeshetists do in their first 3 months of Anaesthetics Training where they’re literally not allowed to be left on their own at any time).

If you want to do Anaesthetics you’ll have to start from CT1 again
OK, thanks for the info.
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Democracy
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(Original post by Chwirkytheappleboy)
You definitely cannot do ST3 Anaesthetics without doing either Core Anaesthetic Training OR ACCS Anaesthetics. Imagine being the Anaesthetics Reg without being able to intubate!

You also have to have done the Primary FRCA before you can apply for ST3 Anaesthetics, and you’re not allowed to sit the Primary FRCA OSCE/SOE until you’ve done your IAC (Initial Assessment of Competence - it’s what all Novice Anaeshetists do in their first 3 months of Anaesthetics Training where they’re literally not allowed to be left on their own at any time).

If you want to do Anaesthetics you’ll have to start from CT1 again
Yes, exactly.
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Becca-Sarah
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(Original post by crystallinedrops)
I want to go into T&O and 2.88:1 is still quite competitive ): That's why I'm trying to look for alternatives, and I don't want to locum because I just want to get into an ST3 programme as soon as possible after finishing so my training doesn't take ages.Thanks for replying!
Last year it was somewhat closer to 1.6:1. If you're coming direct from CT2 it's even higher.
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Helenia
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(Original post by Chwirkytheappleboy)
You definitely cannot do ST3 Anaesthetics without doing either Core Anaesthetic Training OR ACCS Anaesthetics. Imagine being the Anaesthetics Reg without being able to intubate!

You also have to have done the Primary FRCA before you can apply for ST3 Anaesthetics, and you’re not allowed to sit the Primary FRCA OSCE/SOE until you’ve done your IAC (Initial Assessment of Competence - it’s what all Novice Anaeshetists do in their first 3 months of Anaesthetics Training where they’re literally not allowed to be left on their own at any time).

If you want to do Anaesthetics you’ll have to start from CT1 again
This is exactly what I came here to say. CST and Core Anaesthetics Training/ACCS Anaes are completely different, no chance of swapping from one to the other at ST3. I could anaesthetise for an appendicectomy in my sleep by the end of CT2, doesn't mean I could suddenly switch and start cutting instead, and vice versa!

If you wanted to make the switch to anaesthetics at that point, then your CST experience would get you maximum points in the "experience in complementary specialties" (or whatever it's called) section, but you would still have to apply to CT1.
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crystallinedrops
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(Original post by Becca-Sarah)
Last year it was somewhat closer to 1.6:1. If you're coming direct from CT2 it's even higher.
Sorry, what's the source on it being closer to 1.6:1? I find that quite surprising.
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(Original post by crystallinedrops)
Sorry, what's the source on it being closer to 1.6:1? I find that quite surprising.
https://twitter.com/orthopodreg/stat...667987457?s=12

151 appointable candidates from 243 interviews.
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Chwirkytheappleboy
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(Original post by Becca-Sarah)
https://twitter.com/orthopodreg/stat...667987457?s=12

151 appointable candidates from 243 interviews.
I never realised that the number of appointable candidates was so low! Is it like that in all specialties?
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ecolier
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(Original post by Chwirkytheappleboy)
I never realised that the number of appointable candidates was so low! Is it like that in all specialties?


I wonder what happend in 2013, when 464 out of 468 interviewed applicants were deemed appointable!
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