Should International Mens Day exist? Watch

04MR17
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#1
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#1
International Mens Day is tomorrow, but it's obviously a bit controversial.

On the one hand: if women get an international day why shouldn't men have one?

On the other: Men have been oppressors and aggressors through a large proportion of History and in many contries continue to impose a patriarchy on society even now.

Is this something we should be celebrating?

And if it is, how exactly should IMD be framed in order to promote the right messages about Men?
Last edited by 04MR17; 11 months ago
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Kian Stevens
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#2
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You can't tar all men with the same brush due to history. History is a reminder of how poor society once was.
The countries who do continue to oppress women shouldn't be mentioned, as there's a reason for the oppression, and it's not because they're men.

In my opinion, there shouldn't be an international celebratory day for an individual sex, as all it does is divide society. We should celebrate both of the sexes for all of their achievements, and for the progress we've made as a society in the Western world to attain the equality status that the sexes have nowadays. A celebratory day for one sex doesn't exhibit equality, but rather the inverse.
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Gent2324
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no for the same reason there shouldnt be an international womens day
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04MR17
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#4
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(Original post by Kian Stevens)
Those countries who do continue to oppress women shouldn't be mentioned.
There are arguments which would exclude every country on the planet if this were the case.
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Kian Stevens
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(Original post by 04MR17)
There are arguments which would exclude every country on the planet if this were the case.
Like what? The truly oppressive countries are only like that because of the fact that the countries are religious, and the oppression of women is inherent in the religion. This is predominant in the Middle Eastern world.
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CoolCavy
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(Original post by 04MR17)
There are arguments which would exclude every country on the planet if this were the case.
Exactly. That's why they don't need an international day, men have never been oppressed especially internationally. Women can't even go to school in some countries.
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Notoriety
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#7
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Only victims are to be celebrated.

In that case, why do we have a day for women, for middle-class lasses who live in London who have faced no hardship or strife in any day of their ****ing life?

Everyone wants to be a victim and recognise victimhood, as long as they are the victim and centre of attention.
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J Papi
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(Original post by 04MR17)
On the other: Men have been oppressors and aggressors through a large proportion of History and in many contries continue to impose a patriarchy on society even now.

Is this something we should be celebrating?
Well, such a day would obviously not celebrate war and the patriarchy :facepalm:

I don't care - you can use IMD to highlight issues that are important to men in the same way that you use IWM to highlight issues being faced by women. Great

(Original post by CoolCavy)
Exactly. That's why they don't need an international day, men have never been oppressed especially internationally. Women can't even go to school in some countries.
How does one oppress another internationally?
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CoolCavy
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(Original post by JohanGRK)


How does one oppress another internationally?
you know what i meant don't be obtuse. Women in the 3rd world are treated awfully, having an international men's day is just a slap in the face to those people.
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04MR17
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(Original post by CoolCavy)
men have never been oppressed especially internationally.
Plenty of men in the world have been abused by their partners (of any sex or gender) or by family: are they not oppressed? Plenty of matriarchal cultures existed 600-1000 years ago, and perhaps in some of them you might argue that men were oppressed. I agree entirely with your general sentiment but this is an oversimplification in my mind.
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J Papi
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(Original post by CoolCavy)
you know what i meant don't be obtuse. Women in the 3rd world are treated awfully, having an international men's day is just a slap in the face to those people.
yawn

IMD would probably be used to highlight issues that are relevant to men. Probably suicide in the West, as well as forced consciption etc in other parts of the world. Not to mention the dangers etc of physical labour in parts of the world where such labour is still largely undertaken by men

None of this is dismissive of women's issues. It's interesting how people turn issues like this into a 'who's more oppressed' contest when there's no need. Focusing on suicide or whatnot doesn't mean that women's issues are suddenly diminished in importance.
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CoolCavy
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Plenty of men in the world have been abused by their partners (of any sex or gender) or by family: are they not oppressed? Plenty of matriarchal cultures existed 600-1000 years ago, and perhaps in some of them you might argue that men were oppressed. I agree entirely with your general sentiment but this is an oversimplification in my mind.
Yeh its an oversimplification but so is the entire day, celebrating men half of which dont need any more excuse to think men are the best.
all i've seen thus far on this IMD is victimhood men whinging about feminism is the fault of everything, basically men dont like that women have similar rights to them in the 1st world and blame society for their suicide rates etc when in reality it's their toxic pride and masculinity stopping them from getting help not that the NHS or society is set up in such a way that it doesnt want to help.
And before anyone says anything i dont think feminism is needed in the 1st world but i also dont think that whingey white men need to blame feminism for the entirety of their problems jsut as women shouldnt blame the patriarchy unless you are somewhere like afghanistan or saudi arabia
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04MR17
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#13
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(Original post by Kian Stevens)
Like what? The truly oppressive countries are only like that because of the fact that the country is religious, and the religion itself is inherently geared towards the oppression of women. This is predominant in the Middle Eastern world.
Like the fact that women suffer economically as a result of childbirth due to lack of wages. That the law around women's salaries and working in Western countries are indeed oppressive.
(That's not necessarily my personal view btw.)

Russia isn't a particularly religious country, but the laws they have just passed which relax the penalties on the domestic abuse of women. Is that not oppressive?
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Notoriety
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
yawn

IMD would probably be used to highlight issues that are relevant to men. Probably suicide in the West, as well as forced consciption etc in other parts of the world. Not to mention the dangers etc of physical labour in parts of the world where such labour is still largely undertaken by men

None of this is dismissive of women's issues. It's interesting how people turn issues like this into a 'who's more oppressed' contest when there's no need. Focusing on suicide or whatnot doesn't mean that women's issues are suddenly diminished in importance.
Yeah, we blow our brains out when we get sad, we die in wars (all of them, in the millions), we die first when the Titanic happens, we get clipped off the missus and no one bats an eye, and we are the protectors when someone breaks into the home.

But women in the 3rd world get the labia lobbed off.
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RazzzBerries
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#15
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Of course! Equality for all.

Men have definitely been oppressed and it'a not been as publicised as much as women's issues. They need to speak up about it too!
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CoolCavy
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(Original post by JohanGRK)

None of this is dismissive of women's issues. It's interesting how people turn issues like this into a 'who's more oppressed' contest when there's no need. Focusing on suicide or whatnot doesn't mean that women's issues are suddenly diminished in importance.
Except it is.
All ive seen is men saying on threads about how 'if this was women it wouldnt be acceptted!!!!!!!????' *triggering intensifies*
you shouldnt have to put one group down to get your cause across.
This attitude discredits the entire day for me tbh
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04MR17
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#17
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(Original post by Notoriety)
We die in wars (all of them, in the millions)
Everyone can die in wars. Historically men just tend to be those holding the weapons - and volunteer to do so. Fighting in a war is not victimhood.
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J Papi
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(Original post by CoolCavy)
Except it is.
All ive seen is men whining on threads about how 'if this was women it wouldnt be acceptted!!!!!!!????' *triggering intensifies*
you shouldnt have to put one group down to get your cause across.
This attitude discredits the entire day for me tbh
So a potentially valuable day should be scrapped because you spend too much time on Reddit? People who diminish others' concerns will always exist. The idea of having a big-ticket event is precisely to get awareness beyond the already-polarised groups of "**** men" and "**** women". These people will always diminish and discredit issues affecting the opposite sex.
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CoolCavy
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
So a potentially valuable day should be scrapped because you spend too much time on Reddit? People who diminish others' concerns will always exist. The idea of having a big-ticket event is precisely to get awareness beyond the already-polarised groups of "**** men" and "**** women". These people will always diminish and discredit issues affecting the opposite sex.
I've never been on reddit mate the interface is horrendous.

anyway this is boring,
bottom line IWD doesnt really need to exist but at least it has some purchase internationally as women are still persecuted in the 3rd world
IMD needs to exist even less as men have never been persecuted just for being men.
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Kian Stevens
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Like the fact that women suffer economically as a result of childbirth due to lack of wages. That the law around women's salaries and working in Western countries are indeed oppressive.
(That's not necessarily my personal view btw.)

Russia isn't a particularly religious country, but the laws they have just passed which relax the penalties on the domestic abuse of women. Is that not oppressive?
What do you expect? The women who choose to have children work less whilst they're in maternity leave. Why should they be paid the same amount of money for much less work? It's not oppressive, it's just common sense.

I was mostly on about the Middle Eastern countries, but I don't deny that Russia have made questionable decisions regarding law.
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