Russia 'fires on and captures' Ukrainian ships in new Crimea stand-off Watch

Tempest II
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It appears that the Ukrainian navy and the Russian border guards have had a altercation in the seas around the Crimea. The media are classing the Russians as special forces, although if these are just border guards then that term may be generous.
Taken from the Telegraph:

"Ukraine has accused Russia of firing on and seizing three of its navy ships amid a sharp escalation of tensions in disputed waters around Crimea.
Ukraine's navy said a vessel belonging to Russia's FSB border guards fired at and damaged the Berdiansk, an armoured artillery boat, injuring at least one crew member late on Sunday.
The Berdiansk and two other vessels were immobilised and stormed by Russian special forces, the defence ministry said. The claim could not be immediately confirmed.
The incident followed a day of mounting tension around the Kerch strait after three Ukrainian vessels tried to pass from the Black Sea into the Sea of Azov, over which the two countries share sovereignty.
The Ukrainian navy said a Russian border guard ship, the Don, rammed and damaged a tug boat as the flotilla approached the strait on Sunday morning."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...hips-entering/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ne-navy-crimea
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the bear
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https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&...raine&src=typd

this could get very very nasty.
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Woksin
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Makes me laugh at how far Russia has fallen. Who would’ve guessed that 10 years ago Russia would be having military confrontations with its sister Ukraine. I suppose Belarus is next.
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Tempest II
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(Original post by Woksin)
Makes me laugh at how far Russia has fallen. Who would’ve guessed that 10 years ago Russia would be having military with its sister Ukraine. I suppose Belarus is next.
Belarus is already practically a vassal of Russia. The two nations have a close union in which Russia holds the power Military action wouldn't be needed
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Woksin
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(Original post by Tempest II)
Belarus is already practically a vassal of Russia. The two nations have a close union in which Russia holds the power Military action wouldn't be needed
Oh I am very aware. Alexander Lukashenko is basically a Russian puppet.
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HANNAHBENLOLO
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Why doesn't Russia just leave Ukraine alone? Russia already has the biggest country on the face of the planet

Ukraine obviously isn't any threat to Russia
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DrMikeHuntHertz
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(Original post by Woksin)
Makes me laugh at how far Russia has fallen. Who would’ve guessed that 10 years ago Russia would be having military confrontations with its sister Ukraine. I suppose Belarus is next.
Only if Belarus convert to neo-nazism too.
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the bear
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here is some fake news explaining why the Russkies attacked:

"Very improtant Info appeared briefly on Russian media (before being scrubbed) that a NATO SADM, possibly a Diver deployable device, was being transported by Ukrainian and British Special Forces to the Kerch Straight to be used on the Crimean bridge. The device was being tracked by the Russians and they knew it had been loaded on to a Ukrainian Tug (escorted by 5 warships!! - 3 in the Black Sea, including one NATO vessel, and 2 waiting in the Sea of Azov).
This is why the Russians acted!
They never react with force and have never blockaded the Sea of Azov. Ground attack jets and Helicopter gunships, plus a warship armed with ASM and Torpedos were waiting.
This level of force would not be used just for a tug and a few old Ukrainian ships. But a tug carrying a tactical nuclear device about to bring down one of the worlds most strategic bridges, a bridge hated by NATO - as per the recent Op Ed in the 'Washington Examiner' (Ukraine should bomb the Crimean Bridge).
Ukraine regularly provokes Russia to little effect, but today the Rusians acted to stop a terrible event.
Ukraine is now in panic mode and there may be direct NATO intervention if the to cover this, if the Russians make this public.
The device may have come from the UK.
The UK have been psychologically preparing thier people for a war with Russia.
The SADM explosion would have brought down the bridge and melted the foundations, but looked like a conventional IED blast from above due to the underwater detonation and relatively low yeield of less than 1KT.
This was a WW3 level provocation STOPPED by the Russian FSB and SF's!
All traces of these reports are being scrubbed as I write!
Get this out before the story is completly scrubbed.
I will not contact you again."


from: https://southfront.org/russia-ukrain...-brink-of-war/
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anarchism101
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(Original post by the bear)
here is some fake news explaining why the Russkies attacked:

"Very improtant Info appeared briefly on Russian media (before being scrubbed)
This is such **** that it's not even worth linking. Even if this were true (and most likely it's not, and this guy is just completely making it up), if it were being scrubbed from Russian propaganda outlets then that's a pretty good sign that it's not remotely credible.

If Russia really had evidence that the Ukrainian ship was carrying a low-yield nuke, they'd be screaming it at everyone who'd listen right now.
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anarchism101
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This is a flashpoint in probably the most dangerous crisis since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the US is being led by an arrogant and incompetent child who thinks this is the ideal time to moan about Europe supposedly not paying enough to NATO.....
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the bear
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(Original post by anarchism101)
This is a flashpoint in probably the most dangerous crisis since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the US is being led by an arrogant and incompetent child who thinks this is the ideal time to moan about Europe supposedly not paying enough to NATO.....
for Mr Pootin the Crimea was just a juicy hors d'hoeuvre.... the main course is Eastern Ukraine.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by anarchism101)
This is a flashpoint in probably the most dangerous crisis since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the US is being led by an arrogant and incompetent child who thinks this is the ideal time to moan about Europe supposedly not paying enough to NATO.....
Here's hoping future historians will not be describing the post 1990 Russia in the same way they describe the post 1918 germany.:worried:
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Johnny English
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I've heard they eat a lot of cabbage broth in the winter and sup plenty of cheap vodka too. It can turn a man's mind if you're not careful .
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anarchism101
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Here's hoping future historians will not be describing the post 1990 Russia in the same way they describe the post 1918 germany.:worried:
There are some similarities, but thankfully I think there are crucial differences. First and foremost: the Nazis wanted a war. Not just saw it as an acceptable consequence of their goals, but actively wanted one, to the point that they got impatient and launched it too early (most Wehrmacht generals has said Germany wouldn't be ready for war until about 1942). If Putin wanted a war, we'd have had it by now.

Furthermore, despite the (justified) fear, both Russia and Putin are starting to struggle. Sanctions are biting, the military budget is starting to get slashed, and Putin is more unpopular than he's ever been. Just a few days ago, a poll came out indicating that over 60% of Russians blame Putin for the country's ills, which is pretty much unprecedented (usually they blame lower-level national or regional figures), and if anything probably an underestimate. Plus while the initial capture of Crimea gave him a popularity boost, the shine has faded and the wars in Ukraine and Syria are pretty unpopular. The Russian people absolutely do not want to see a big full scale war with Ukraine.

Patience is very important here. Tighten sanctions, and take measures to secure against any further Russian advances/attacks, but we shouldn't lash out or try to confront them. At the rate we're going, when Putin's term finishes in 2024, Russians will be glad to be rid of him.
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ANM775
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(Original post by anarchism101)
At the rate we're going, when Putin's term finishes in 2024, Russians will be glad to be rid of him.

If you've not somehow noticed he doesn't tend to step down when his term finishes.

Don't be so sure he won't decide he wants to stay on again...........
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yoink
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I think it may have to do something with the fact the Ukrainian presidential elections are coming up and Petro Poroshenko doesn't look like he will be elected once again, this is why he has called upon martial law to prospone the elections and hold onto his power. Just my 2 cents.

Although I also find it pretty hypocritical of Kremln to call it the incident 'a dangerous act of provocation' roughly 3 years after the annexation of crimea.
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anarchism101
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(Original post by ANM775)
If you've not somehow noticed he doesn't tend to step down when his term finishes.

Don't be so sure he won't decide he wants to stay on again...........
Constitution limits him to 2 consecutive terms, and he did let Medvedev have a term after his first 2 terms were up in 2008. Sure, he could change the constitution, but if that's the plan then he's been pretty counterproductively denying it for a while. Reversing course is possible, yes, but it's only going to get harder from here.

Plus, on our current course l, there's a good chance he'd have to face a runoff in 2024 if he did run, even with all his built-in advantages. And Putin's the kind of guy who would see that as an indignity worse than a controlled departure.

Of course, some have suggested he could repeat the 2008 model - let someone else be President for a term while he becomes Prime Minister for a bit, then run again in 2030. But by then he'd be 78. No one will be expecting him to live much longer, and loyalties will transfer to whoever looks set to replace him.

He can't rule forever, and the longer he tries to the harder it will get.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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I like that they're calling a tugboat provocative. That's punching well above its weight and a real aspiration.

(Original post by HANNAHBENLOLO)
Why doesn't Russia just leave Ukraine alone? Russia already has the biggest country on the face of the planet

Ukraine obviously isn't any threat to Russia
It's not about whether a country is a threat with Russia, more trying to justify some colonialism that's occuring. They want Ukraine - certainly Crimea - as part of Russia
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ukrj
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Wow, this thread has so much racist garbage against the Russians. people have fallen for the crap being fed to us by the fake news. This altercation was instigated by the Ukrainians who, by the way, are still shelling residential areas in one of their republics.

Bottom line, how many on here are prepared to go to war with Russia to recover Crimea? Do people realise the Crimeans themselves would resist such a 'liberation'?

Face it, nobody is going to war over this. At most, we will help the Ukrainians to fight a war until the last Ukrainian is dead. Therefore the Ukrainians are idiots.
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Tempest II
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(Original post by ukrj)
Wow, this thread has so much racist garbage against the Russians. people have fallen for the crap being fed to us by the fake news. This altercation was instigated by the Ukrainians who, by the way, are still shelling residential areas in one of their republics.

Bottom line, how many on here are prepared to go to war with Russia to recover Crimea? Do people realise the Crimeans themselves would resist such a 'liberation'?

Face it, nobody is going to war over this. At most, we will help the Ukrainians to fight a war until the last Ukrainian is dead. Therefore the Ukrainians are idiots.
Do you read RT and other Kremlin influenced media? It's literally the definition of fake news, half truths and utter rubbish.

A treaty between the Ukraine and Russia in 2003 acknowledges that the Sea of Azov is shared territory. Therefore Ivan had no right to fire on those vessels.

No one is suggesting that NATO will fight a battle over Crimea - economic sanctions are the weapon of choice in this instance.
However, the Ukraine and NATO must ensure that Russia does spread west-wards, towards Kiev and/or one of the Baltic nations. While NATO is under no treaty obligations to protect the Ukraine, the Baltic nations are NATO members. This whole incident stinks of Russian creeping escalation - at the very least, it's an excuse for Putin to put pressure on the Ukraine government before the elections next year.
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