Why is the public NOT happy with May's excellent Brexit deal? It's a total win for UK Watch

HANNAHBENLOLO
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So I cannot quite understand why isn't the public opinion happy with what Theresa May has managed to negotiate - I mean really, what exactly did they expect? What kind of a deal if not this one? Please explain.

To my understanding it's a total win for the UK (it could not have been better):

- Ends free movement of people as this was apparently the biggest (if not the only reason) for Brexit
- Guarantees right to remain for those who lived for 5 years or more in Britain and for British in continental Europe
- Leaves customs union and the single market
- Ends common agricultural/fisheries and other common policies
- Ends ECJ jurisdiction
- Ends directives and regulations of the EU
- Enables a very close access to the single market post-Brexit

Really - what else did the public expect? Please enlighten me. It's literally the best possible deal.

Also, this is a separate point but do the 52% of people consider that 48% did want to remain altogether?

This is a hard brexit deal in my opinion anyway, like what else would you want? Shut down of La Manche?
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random_matt
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It's a worse position than staying in the EU, May is in denial and the EU are hoping we change our minds.
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TensorTympani
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Its because most of the public are people who wanted labour to win the election now they have to make a fuss over this deal which they probably wanted, however just because it is Conservative doing the deal they are making a fuss over it. And whoever votes against the deal in Parliment do not want Brexit to continue.
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random_matt
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Perhaps you two should actually read the key issues in this botched deal.
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DrMikeHuntHertz
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Basically the UK becomes the first satellite state of the EUSSR.
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RobinKent
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In every divorce all sides find fault:

Hard Remain and Hard Brexit shout they each got a bad deal. It's unfair.

Labour claim they could have got a better deal, the Conservatives say they got the best available. The other Lawyer could always have got you more?

The UK and the EU shout they conceded more than they can afford. It's unfair.

Perhaps Britain would have got a better deal had Parliament accepted the result of the 2016 referendum and united to achieve it.

Those opposing the referendum outcome and now the deal may one day reflect on how that helped the national interest. Only time will tell.

The deal is far from perfect but the majority can live with it.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by HANNAHBENLOLO)
So I cannot quite understand why isn't the public opinion happy with what Theresa May has managed to negotiate
Public opinion hasn't yet been formed. No ordinary member of the public is going to read this stuff so public opinion amounts to choosing which politicians' opinions each member of the public has confidence in. That will develop over the next few days.

Does public opinion matter in these circumstances? As it will be so malleable, will any wavering politicians use it as a guide to how they will vote?
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Johnny English
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Most voted for Brexit on two key issues .

1. A vast reduction in immigration .

2. The end of rule by Europe .

Part of the deal in the future involves giving up some of our traditional fishing grounds in exchange for special arrangements within the EU fisheries markets .
I personally don't think it's too bad a deal
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NJA
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What is so terrible about a WTO terms deal for the UK with Europe?
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londonmyst
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(Original post by RobinKent)
In every divorce all sides find fault:

Hard Remain and Hard Brexit shout they each got a bad deal. It's unfair.

Labour claim they could have got a better deal, the Conservatives say they got the best available. The other Lawyer could always have got you more?

The UK and the EU shout they conceded more than they can afford. It's unfair.

Perhaps Britain would have got a better deal had Parliament accepted the result of the 2016 referendum and united to achieve it.

Those opposing the referendum outcome and now the deal may one day reflect on how that helped the national interest. Only time will tell.

The deal is far from perfect but the majority can live with it.
What is your evidential basis for the statement "the majority can live with it"?
I doubt many within the house of commons will vote for it, even Jeremy Corbyn is going to vote against.
The shadow cabinet, lib dems, DUP, SNP, die hard Tory Brexit fans like Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson, Zac Goldsmith and John Redwood- are all united in public opposition.
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pearlgrey
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It makes 0 sense for us to come out of the EU at all, not least with this shoddy deal. We’re spending billions of pounds on a deal that is ultimately going to leave us in a worse position than if we had remained. The argument that May is simply fulfilling the results of the referendum is worthless when the whole vote was rushed and the campaign on both sides was based on lies and hyperbole. I personally know people who have said that would have voted to remain if they had known the whole truth about leaving BEFORE the referendum that got us into the mess we are now in.
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NJA
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May said we are bored of talking about brexit therefore we should accept her deal, but it has so many unanswered questions and things that need to be thrashed about that it isn't the end of the talk about brexit,it isn't even the beginning of the end, it is perhaps the end of the beginning.
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RobinKent
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@Londonmyst
At this stage of the process there is no evidential basis for any outcome but note that most of what we see reported is the rantings of the radical, or to use your words "die hard", Remain and Leave politicians and pundits. You rightly raise the prospect that for political reasons MPs may well vote it down but that is not the point I made which is that the public could most likely live with it. Only after the vote will there be evidence for how MPs actually voted. There may never be evidence of public opinion. At this point we are both speculating aboutMPs and public behaviour.
Last edited by RobinKent; 1 year ago
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Notoriety
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(Original post by NJA)
What is so terrible about a WTO terms deal for the UK with Europe?
WTO only really addresses goods. Services under GATS is underdeveloped and ignored. And there's a reason every WTO signatory has an RTA rather than deals exclusively on "WTO terms"; more and more are dealing with services. I quote WTO terms because RTAs, and EU, are in fact part of the WTO's dynamics. It is not as if we have not been dealing with the EU on WTO terms since our membership began.

And the GATT, while great and one of the most important agreements out there, does involve tariffed trade in goods. Meaning we will be subject to tariffs, which businesses say they cannot withstand or else they will lose out to EU-based competition, regarding intra-EU trade. That's why we would need an FTA+ with the EU, at the very least, even with regard to goods. But, as above, RTAs are part and parcel of the WTO world. They are part of "WTO terms".

WTO also doesn't deal with anything else. E.g. cooperating in security and police investigations, extradition, whether we can sell our banking, accountancy and legal services to EU-MSs, and importantly how each country resolves these non-trade disputes. Do they ad hoc go the ICJ when something messy arises, or have a prolonged stand-off?
Last edited by Notoriety; 1 year ago
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Johnny English
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Perhaps we should be made aware in precise detail why this deal is worse than what we already have . Why have we managed to become worse off (or so we are told) by this proposed brexit arrangement.
I'm not specifically talking about the trade arrangements and the implications of that , but on a more wider basis . For example the nitty gritty on the Fisheries and Agriculture .
None of what we are being fed is specific enough in my opinion . ?
Does anyone else think the same ?
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ColinDent
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The biggest problem most have with the deal as it stands is that we cannot leave it without EU approval, this hands over every advantage to the EU going forward in trade talks and is a crazy situation to be in.
The choices are clear after this deal gets voted down in parliament, go back to the EU and negotiate the removal of the backstop as it stands so the deal can pass through parliament, or leave with no deal which would therefore give us to become Europe's version of Singapore, something which the EU very much do not want, then try renegotiating again at which point I suspect they would become a little more flexible.
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Conconz
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I don't see a win.

Some of us want free movement, now it's going to be harder to work and travel elsewhere.

We had a say in EU regulations, and many of them benefitted us.

Close access isn't going to be as good as proper access like before this.

Its ****, and we should have remained.

Probably could have been a lot worse though.
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paul514
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(Original post by HANNAHBENLOLO)
So I cannot quite understand why isn't the public opinion happy with what Theresa May has managed to negotiate - I mean really, what exactly did they expect? What kind of a deal if not this one? Please explain.

To my understanding it's a total win for the UK (it could not have been better):

- Ends free movement of people as this was apparently the biggest (if not the only reason) for Brexit
- Guarantees right to remain for those who lived for 5 years or more in Britain and for British in continental Europe
- Leaves customs union and the single market
- Ends common agricultural/fisheries and other common policies
- Ends ECJ jurisdiction
- Ends directives and regulations of the EU
- Enables a very close access to the single market post-Brexit

Really - what else did the public expect? Please enlighten me. It's literally the best possible deal.

Also, this is a separate point but do the 52% of people consider that 48% did want to remain altogether?

This is a hard brexit deal in my opinion anyway, like what else would you want? Shut down of La Manche?
Didn’t read your post just the title.

Without even going into all the details it can’t be accepted on one single point.

We can’t leave the agreement unless the EU allows us to, simple as that.
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HANNAHBENLOLO
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(Original post by paul514)
Didn’t read your post just the title.

Without even going into all the details it can’t be accepted on one single point.

We can’t leave the agreement unless the EU allows us to, simple as that.
Well I'd suggest that you read what I've outlined - it's literally in bullet points. I cannot see how any deal could be better than this one. You almost keep a single market access without being a member (ending freedom of movement, ECJ jurisdiction, regulations and directives, common fisheries/agriculture and other policies), for merely 39 bln (that's not a lot - again you practically keep the single market access).
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HANNAHBENLOLO
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(Original post by Johnny English)
Most voted for Brexit on two key issues .

1. A vast reduction in immigration .

2. The end of rule by Europe .

Part of the deal in the future involves giving up some of our traditional fishing grounds in exchange for special arrangements within the EU fisheries markets .
I personally don't think it's too bad a deal
It is literally the best possible deal
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