Why is the public NOT happy with May's excellent Brexit deal? It's a total win for UK Watch

Fullofsurprises
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#61
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
May's deal is a total travesty and totally traitorous.

This government, infested as it is with EU stooges, has spent 2 years delaying and delaying and working out ways to subvert the democratic decision to Leave the EU.

May's deal pure and simply does NOT see us properly leaving the EU.

It leaves us still under EU control for an indefinite period and thus is utterly unacceptable.

Aside from that as poster Paul514 rightly says, the deal contains a "DEADLY LOCK IN" clause that means we can not get out of that deal once we sign up to it, without the EU's consent.

Such nonsense is an absolute travesty and a complete subversion of justice.

May should be sacked immediately and replaced with a politician who :

1) Is not bought, owned and controlled by the EU
2) Who WILL honour the result of the referendum
3) Who WILL go ahead with "No Deal" if the EU continue to play silly buggers.


Right now I see no useful way forward other than to GTFO with NO DEAL..

I totally support NO DEAL at this point because until it happens the country is going to remain in uncertainty and our fraudulent politicians will continue this pathetic avoidance sideshow that has been going on for 2 years.

We need to start putting politicians on trial. They are subverting democracy and THAT is a bigger issue than BrExit itself. If the government is permitted to subvert a democratic decision then we are in a dire state of affairs and all our long standing rights and freedoms are at risk.

That's a really serious issue of a level that WILL herald national civil unrest and widespread chaos if democracy is abandoned. The rioting and looting and arson we saw in London in 2010/11 will be nothing compared to what will happen if these EU stooge politicians refuse to properly take us out of the EU and its control. There will imho be rioting and looting and arson in all major cities right across the UK simultaneously. The UK police serves can in no way deal with that. They had to draft police in from all over the country just to deal with those London riots.

It is time to clean up UK politics and rid it of the corruption and EU control. We must restore the British Constitution that has been run roughshod over and bring to justice all those who have been involved in selling the UK out to a foreign power.

The truth here is that the EU is utterly desperate for the UK to stay because they need our money and because the EU is imho collapsing.
This is why they are currently engaged in massive social media campaigns trying to change people's minds about leaving and why they just keep creating ever new threads on forums like this suggesting 2nd referendums and "staying is better" and "No Deal will be a catastrophe".

The biased BBC is spreading the "No Deal" Project Hysteria far and wide, these people really are desperate.

We must not allow this anti-democratic behaviour to stand. We MUST LEAVE and as we have no politicians willing to fight for a proper deal the only way is NO DEAL.

NO DEAL ALL THE WAY NOW. LET'S GET IT DONE !

The "trapped in the backstop" theory is a wild exaggeration by hardcore Brexiteers. It's interesting to see what professional international lawyers say about it.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ys-brexit-plan

In any event, it only relates to the decision making about continuing the arrangements for trade in Northern Ireland - it doesn't affect a thing in main UK legislation. It's just a hocus pocus argument driven by the usual shitbag foreign financial interests and sleazy self-serving hedge fund politicians like Rees-Mogg. The aim is to confuse the public.

Those calling for a hard crash out are determined to wreck the UK economy in pursuit of impossible racist goals around restricting immigration to people they consider acceptable - basically white South Africans. (not that much of an exaggeration)

We can listen to kipper lies, or we can focus on what actually matters - jobs, trade, national income and our relationships with the countries closest to us on the map.
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paul514
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#62
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I thought it was simple demographics. There used to be a website that categorised areas by proportion of people who watch ITV. I imagine labour voters are more like to watch ITV.
That was the excuse used by corbyn but the real reason was the format
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The "trapped in the backstop" theory is a wild exaggeration by hardcore Brexiteers. It's interesting to see what professional international lawyers say about it.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ys-brexit-plan

In any event, it only relates to the decision making about continuing the arrangements for trade in Northern Ireland - it doesn't affect a thing in main UK legislation. It's just a hocus pocus argument driven by the usual shitbag foreign financial interests and sleazy self-serving hedge fund politicians like Rees-Mogg. The aim is to confuse the public.

Those calling for a hard crash out are determined to wreck the UK economy in pursuit of impossible racist goals around restricting immigration to people they consider acceptable - basically white South Africans. (not that much of an exaggeration)

We can listen to kipper lies, or we can focus on what actually matters - jobs, trade, national income and our relationships with the countries closest to us on the map.
Rule of law does exist at the international level, ya know.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Those calling for a hard crash out are determined to wreck the UK economy in pursuit of impossible racist goals around restricting immigration to people they consider acceptable - basically white South Africans. (not that much of an exaggeration)
I was going to objectively look at your posts but since you've cited the a-typical Remainer claptrap about BrExiteers being "racists" you destroyed any credibility.

The racist schtick is just so utterly lame. I can't believe Remainiacs are still using it.

Immigration was by no means a priority in my referendum decision. There are far bigger issues facing the UK population than immigration.

The potential loss of democracy and basic long standing freedoms like "Innocent until proven guilty" (Habeus Corpus) for one.
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paul514
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
I was going to objectively look at your posts but since you've cited the a-typical Remainer claptrap about BrExiteers being "racists" you destroyed any credibility.

The racist schtick is just so utterly lame. I can't believe Remainiacs are still using it.

Immigration was by no means a priority in my referendum decision. There are far bigger issues facing the UK population than immigration.

The potential loss of democracy and basic long standing freedoms like "Innocent until proven guilty" (Habeus Corpus) for one.
Ditto and the point is moot anyway as Mays deal has full control of migration
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anarchism101
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Unfortunately for both Remainers and hard Brexiters, May's deal, despite almost certainly not passing in a first vote next week, is most likely going to be what we'll end up with.
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paul514
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(Original post by anarchism101)
Unfortunately for both Remainers and hard Brexiters, May's deal, despite almost certainly not passing in a first vote next week, is most likely going to be what we'll end up with.
I really don’t see how if it fails by anything like the reported numbers on Tuesday
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anarchism101
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(Original post by paul514)
I really don’t see how if it fails by anything like the reported numbers on Tuesday
That's probably the most straightforward route - it fails, but by a noticeably smaller margin than expected, and passes on a second vote. Personally I've got my suspicions we're headed to a more circuitous route though. Chances of a second referendum are probably higher than they've ever been.
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paul514
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(Original post by anarchism101)
That's probably the most straightforward route - it fails, but by a noticeably smaller margin than expected, and passes on a second vote. Personally I've got my suspicions we're headed to a more circuitous route though. Chances of a second referendum are probably higher than they've ever been.
Its going to have to be below at least 50 votes for a chance to pass on a second vote.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
I was going to objectively look at your posts but since you've cited the a-typical Remainer claptrap about BrExiteers being "racists" you destroyed any credibility.

The racist schtick is just so utterly lame. I can't believe Remainiacs are still using it.

Immigration was by no means a priority in my referendum decision. There are far bigger issues facing the UK population than immigration.

The potential loss of democracy and basic long standing freedoms like "Innocent until proven guilty" (Habeus Corpus) for one.
Just because you weren't motivated by racism doesn't mean it wasn't a racist campaign or that racism didn't play a key role. If race wasn't an issue, why did nearly all the key Brexiteers join in the racist 'Turkish Threat' campaign as the referendum closed? Why did not just Farage, but nearly every leading Brexiteer bang on endlessly about immigration? Why was the complete myth that leaving the EU would suddenly change the UK's demography constantly put about?

The day after the referendum, people were going up to Asians in the streets and yelling abuse along the lines of "you'll have to leave now".
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DylanArmitage01
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one of the main things id the backstop that we will not be able to leave were we to accept the deal unless the EU lets us leave which they likely won't as they are trying to make a statement to other EU members that are now becoming more right wing trying to get them to stay.

there is also a large divide in not only the conservative party but the whole of parliament on the handling of multiple areas such as the Irish border. None of these groups seem willing to compromise so May is in a very difficult situation.
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paul514
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Just because you weren't motivated by racism doesn't mean it wasn't a racist campaign or that racism didn't play a key role. If race wasn't an issue, why did nearly all the key Brexiteers join in the racist 'Turkish Threat' campaign as the referendum closed? Why did not just Farage, but nearly every leading Brexiteer bang on endlessly about immigration? Why was the complete myth that leaving the EU would suddenly change the UK's demography constantly put about?

The day after the referendum, people were going up to Asians in the streets and yelling abuse along the lines of "you'll have to leave now".
The Turkish 'threat' was, and to an extent still is ongoing.

If they join the EU then there will be another 80 million people who will be eligible to move to the western and northern european countries.

Now whether people don't want those people because they are brown (racist), because they are followers of Islam or due to sheer extra numbers doesn't stop the fact that it is still possible but less so since Erdogan's crackdown which was after the referendum.

Banging on about immigration doesnt make someone a racist.

The people going up to others on the street the day after the referendum arent exactly representative of leave voters otherwise there would have been some sort of mass disobedience to say the least if 17 million people took to the streets for disliking foriegn looking people.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by paul514)
The Turkish 'threat' was, and to an extent still is ongoing.

If they join the EU then there will be another 80 million people who will be eligible to move to the western and northern european countries.

Now whether people don't want those people because they are brown (racist), because they are followers of Islam or due to sheer extra numbers doesn't stop the fact that it is still possible but less so since Erdogan's crackdown which was after the referendum.

Banging on about immigration doesnt make someone a racist.

The people going up to others on the street the day after the referendum arent exactly representative of leave voters otherwise there would have been some sort of mass disobedience to say the least if 17 million people took to the streets for disliking foriegn looking people.
There isn't a rats chance in hell that Turkey will join the EU - but feel free to keep spreading the fear, it works so well.
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paul514
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
There isn't a rats chance in hell that Turkey will join the EU - but feel free to keep spreading the fear, it works so well.
Still paying them to help towards them joining and its still the official EU line on the matter.
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paul514
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(Original post by DylanArmitage01)
one of the main things id the backstop that we will not be able to leave were we to accept the deal unless the EU lets us leave which they likely won't as they are trying to make a statement to other EU members that are now becoming more right wing trying to get them to stay.

there is also a large divide in not only the conservative party but the whole of parliament on the handling of multiple areas such as the Irish border. None of these groups seem willing to compromise so May is in a very difficult situation.
How can someone compromise on fundementals if they are a leaver?

Remainer MP's are simply ignoring the referedum result and pretending that they don't know the few main reasons why people did so.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by paul514)
Still paying them to help towards them joining and its still the official EU line on the matter.
Then it just shows how much money the Commission is prepared to waste on lost causes, which is I suppose one valid critique of them.
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paul514
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Then it just shows how much money the Commission is prepared to waste on lost causes, which is I suppose one valid critique of them.
Perhaps so, but a new leader will take over one day in Turkey making it likely again.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by paul514)
Perhaps so, but a new leader will take over one day in Turkey making it likely again.
Merkel has recently stated that they will never join. Yes, Erdogan could conceivably be replaced by a peace-loving modernising opposer of fundamentalist Islam supporting pluralism, human rights and EU entry, but it's about as likely as Putin suddenly being replaced by Kasparov. I won't be holding my breath.
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paul514
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Merkel has recently stated that they will never join. Yes, Erdogan could conceivably be replaced by a peace-loving modernising opposer of fundamentalist Islam supporting pluralism, human rights and EU entry, but it's about as likely as Putin suddenly being replaced by Kasparov. I won't be holding my breath.
Well talking of who is being replaced, theres Merkel so her thoughts are mute.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by paul514)
Well talking of who is being replaced, theres Merkel so her thoughts are mute.
By (presumably) someone with hardline anti-expansion anti-immigrant views, so that should help with admitting Turkey.
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