Why is the public NOT happy with May's excellent Brexit deal? It's a total win for UK Watch

DylanArmitage01
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#81
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#81
(Original post by paul514)
How can someone compromise on fundementals if they are a leaver?

Remainer MP's are simply ignoring the referedum result and pretending that they don't know the few main reasons why people did so.
By compromise I mean , people like the hardline brexiteers such as Jacob Rees-mogg want different thing s from a more soft brexiteer .unless a group gets exactly what's they want they are unlikely to vote for mays brexit deal , may doesn't command a parliamentary majority and can only excert patronage on less than half of the commons. The only way that this will get through is if people compromise.

This isn't a black and white " leave or remain " issue , there are many different factors which different groups disagree on , for example the DUP said that they won't support may because of how she has dealt with the Irish border , lib dems want a second referendum , some like the previous mentioned Jacob Rees mogg want entirely out of the customs union .

And no , the MPs who voted remain aren't just voting against may because they are ignorant of the people's vote , while it may be true that some remainers have kept firm to their position, some aren't and feel that it is best to now move forward and deal with getting the best possible deal.
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paul514
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(Original post by DylanArmitage01)
By compromise I mean , people like the hardline brexiteers such as Jacob Rees-mogg want different thing s from a more soft brexiteer .unless a group gets exactly what's they want they are unlikely to vote for mays brexit deal , may doesn't command a parliamentary majority and can only excert patronage on less than half of the commons. The only way that this will get through is if people compromise.

This isn't a black and white " leave or remain " issue , there are many different factors which different groups disagree on , for example the DUP said that they won't support may because of how she has dealt with the Irish border , lib dems want a second referendum , some like the previous mentioned Jacob Rees mogg want entirely out of the customs union .

And no , the MPs who voted remain aren't just voting against may because they are ignorant of the people's vote , while it may be true that some remainers have kept firm to their position, some aren't and feel that it is best to now move forward and deal with getting the best possible deal.
Sorry but that’s balls people voted leave mainly for....

Immigration
Trade deals
Make your own laws

That’s no single market, no customs union and no ECJ.
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DylanArmitage01
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#83
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(Original post by paul514)
Sorry but that’s balls people voted leave mainly for....

Immigration
Trade deals
Make your own laws

That’s no single market, no customs union and no ECJ.
Calm down , first of all the UK can make its own laws and I don't know why you would think otherwise. I think what you might be thinking of I should the human rights act , you know the thing that interfered with the Abu hamza court case as that was a staple of the leave campaign.well that was created by the ECHR , a separate body to the EU so that was a lie that leaving the EU would remove the HRA from the UK constitution. Recently there has also been a clear tendency towards people thinking leave was a bad idea as can be seen by any poll on the subject in the past few months as more and more misinformation spread by the leave campaign has been revealed.

Your idea that only people that want to remain are voting against may shows a clear lack of knowledge on the subject. If your idea that's people still think the same as they did previously then why aren't 52% of MPs with Theresa may because if what your saying I should true then the only factors that effect your opinion is whether you want to leave or not.

This isn't not correct , the issue is not binary and there are many reasons that people will and have disagreed with mays deal. It is debatable whether putting this to a referendum was even a good idea as brexit itself could go many different ways.
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paul514
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#84
(Original post by DylanArmitage01)
Calm down , first of all the UK can make its own laws and I don't know why you would think otherwise. I think what you might be thinking of I should the human rights act , you know the thing that interfered with the Abu hamza court case as that was a staple of the leave campaign.well that was created by the ECHR , a separate body to the EU so that was a lie that leaving the EU would remove the HRA from the UK constitution. Recently there has also been a clear tendency towards people thinking leave was a bad idea as can be seen by any poll on the subject in the past few months as more and more misinformation spread by the leave campaign has been revealed.

Your idea that only people that want to remain are voting against may shows a clear lack of knowledge on the subject. If your idea that's people still think the same as they did previously then why aren't 52% of MPs with Theresa may because if what your saying I should true then the only factors that effect your opinion is whether you want to leave or not.

This isn't not correct , the issue is not binary and there are many reasons that people will and have disagreed with mays deal. It is debatable whether putting this to a referendum was even a good idea as brexit itself could go many different ways.
Yes the uk makes it own laws..... but it also has to take on the EU’s

I didn’t say the only people voting against Mays deal.....

The MP’s were never split 52-48 for and against brexit lol
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by paul514)
Yes the uk makes it own laws..... but it also has to take on the EU’s
But how many of those EU laws were passed by qualified majority voting where the UK was in the minority.

2%...
1%...
less?
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paul514
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
But how many of those EU laws were passed by qualified majority voting where the UK was in the minority.

2%...
1%...
less?
You tell me different sources say different things the lowest I saw was 7% of uk laws the highest was many times higher than that.

There’s a discrepancy over what’s an Eu law such as directives etc
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by paul514)
You tell me different sources say different things the lowest I saw was 7% of uk laws the highest was many times higher than that.

There’s a discrepancy over what’s an Eu law such as directives etc
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts...-uk-influence/
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paul514
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Yea that’s only ministers what about parliament in Brussels or the ECJ? what about the directives etc.

That’s why it isn’t straight forward
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Notoriety
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(Original post by paul514)
Sorry but that’s balls people voted leave mainly for....

Immigration
Trade deals
Make your own laws

That’s no single market, no customs union and no ECJ.
When we start doing WTO stuff in our own name, we will become more involved in WTO litigation. Which is settled by the WTO Panels and the Appellate Body. Trade deals also require a dispute resolution process, which means ad hoc arbitrations or an established dispute body (e.g. Nafta's various panels; ICSID common for BIT; ICJ). If you think you're getting away from a foreign jurist making awards against the UK, you are sadly mistaken.
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paul514
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(Original post by Notoriety)
When we start doing WTO stuff in our own name, we will become more involved in WTO litigation. Which is settled by the WTO Panels and the Appellate Body. Trade deals also require a dispute resolution process, which means ad hoc arbitrations or an established dispute body (e.g. Nafta's various panels; ICSID common for BIT; ICJ). If you think you're getting away from a foreign jurist making awards against the UK, you are sadly mistaken.
For trade....
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Notoriety
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(Original post by paul514)
For trade....
I thought one your priorities of three is autonomy in making trade deals. Now you're saying the oversight in relation to trade deals is all so minor.

And not just trade deals. Any treaty you make, and the RTAs often have "embedded" non-trade priorities within them (i.e. trade+ deals, with some trade++ deals; WTO itself is predicated upon "embedded liberalism"), can involve ad hoc or a formal established dispute resolution body. Meaning any cooperation in relation to police, military, fisheries, and whatever else which creates a requirement in law, can involve a jurist telling us to not do something. In many cases, a jurist who mightn't be impartial or trained in the European tradition.

And don't forget that "trade" also refers to services. Turks wanting to be business consultants to your local chippy are part of the WTO deal. The GATS is currently impotent, but there are multiple attempts (notably TiSA, with EU leading the way there) which wish to provide more rigour.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by paul514)
Yea that’s only ministers what about parliament in Brussels or the ECJ? what about the directives etc.

That’s why it isn’t straight forward
Directives and Regulations, which are the two types of European legislation, have to be approved by the European Parliament so they are included in this article.
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HANNAHBENLOLO
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Directives and Regulations, which are the two types of European legislation, have to be approved by the European Parliament so they are included in this article.
Yes and as such they will no longer be binding according to the deal, right?

What will happen to the deal in the aftermath of today's vote? Will it have an impact?
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Rock Fan
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#94
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Doubt we are actually gonna leave
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Napp
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(Original post by Rock Fan)
Doubt we are actually gonna leave
In fairness i doubt the EU will let us (or at least want us) to stay given the regime of extremist wreckers we have in power
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