Have your say: Creative arts ‘should be compulsory’ for all GCSE students Watch

DonaldJong-Un
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if was me what would have happened is either not bother with it and end up with a F and a waste of a GCSE. or devote more time to it at expense o f other subjects. i think it would be like this for others also
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Emma:-)
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(Original post by Purplebottle)
I don’t think it should be compulsory, not everyone likes it nor is everyone good at it. And it’s not necessarily needed for all future paths. Whereas maths english etc are the base for many careers
I agree
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Arran90
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(Original post by Acsel)
Maths and Science have the advantage of being established subjects that are more or less available to everyone. I don't think it's fair to comapre the established SM side of things to the still growing TE.
Electronics has existed as an O Level since around 1980. Secondary schools had workshops for woodwork and metalwork. D&T had become an established subject in the 1990s. Therefore it could be argued that D&T are reasonably established subjects.

One problem that D&T subjects have faced is that woodwork and metalwork had a double purpose in allowing students who were not academic but good with their hands to excel at. The replacement electronics, engineering, and even D&T are more technical and 'brain' type subjects that students of lower academic ability have struggled with. If future TE subjects are to be valued by employers and FE then they must be sufficiently academically rigorous which will disenfranchise students of lower academic ability.

The future of Michael Gove's reformed D&T remains to be seen.
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TensorTympani
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The education department in the Government actually thought for quite long about which subjects should be compulsury, and creative art is not something like maths or english which you will need in everyday life to make it compulsury.
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Acsel
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(Original post by Arran90)
Electronics has existed as an O Level since around 1980. Secondary schools had workshops for woodwork and metalwork. D&T had become an established subject in the 1990s. Therefore it could be argued that D&T are reasonably established subjects.
The existence of a subject doesn't make it accessible though. While I agree that Design and Technology is one of the most established across schools, I would question whether it's something a lot of schools do actually have facilities for. When I left school in 2011, we had just had our food technology room built. I don't have anything to suggest either way but it would be interesting to see how many schools actually have funding and space to support engineering subjects. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that nearly 30 years later, it's still not something everyone can access.

And incidentally, the post you quoted was meant to look at things as a whole. Maths and Science is largely established. Engineering in the case of DT is somewhat widely established but still growing, and Technology (largely Computer Science) appears to be one of the least grown. I totally agree that DT is fairly established, but on the whole Engineering and Technology aren't as established as Maths and Science.
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Arran90
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(Original post by Acsel)
The existence of a subject doesn't make it accessible though. While I agree that Design and Technology is one of the most established across schools, I would question whether it's something a lot of schools do actually have facilities for. When I left school in 2011, we had just had our food technology room built. I don't have anything to suggest either way but it would be interesting to see how many schools actually have funding and space to support engineering subjects. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that nearly 30 years later, it's still not something everyone can access.

And incidentally, the post you quoted was meant to look at things as a whole. Maths and Science is largely established. Engineering in the case of DT is somewhat widely established but still growing, and Technology (largely Computer Science) appears to be one of the least grown. I totally agree that DT is fairly established, but on the whole Engineering and Technology aren't as established as Maths and Science.
Technology referred to D&T subjects, including food tech, before the computer science GCSE was created. Engineering wasn't really used in relation to the school curriculum until the engineering GCSE was created and only for this subject. D&T electronics or systems and control were rarely referred to as engineering subjects.

Technology subjects (not computer science) in secondary schools have just not had the funding from central government to anywhere near the same degree as science has, or even ICT which became a prominent subject in the 1990s and early 2000s. ICT was not a real STEM subject.

Computer science is a new subject so it's harder to make clear comparisons at this stage. What is known is that it has been pushed harder by the government than any previous technology subject has. One of the biggest challenges it faces is a shortage of teachers because many ICT teachers lack the knowledge to teach the subject properly.
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Acsel
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(Original post by Arran90)
Technology subjects (not computer science) in secondary schools have just not had the funding from central government to anywhere near the same degree as science has, or even ICT which became a prominent subject in the 1990s and early 2000s. ICT was not a real STEM subject.
This is fundamentally the point I'm making when I say they're still growing subjects compared to something more established like Maths.
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PQ
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(Original post by TensorTympani)
The education department in the Government actually thought for quite long about which subjects should be compulsury, and creative art is not something like maths or english which you will need in everyday life to make it compulsury.
Do you honestly believe that? The ebacc subjects were decided by Michael gove on the back of a fag packet. He chose to ignore a whole raft of pedagogical research and research into skills gaps now and in the future when his “reforms” were forced through.
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TensorTympani
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(Original post by PQ)
Do you honestly believe that? The ebacc subjects were decided by Michael gove on the back of a fag packet. He choose to ignore a whole raft of pedagogical research and research into skills gaps now and in the future when his “reforms” were frced through.
I do believe that. And EBACC is very important if your so interested into why it is important search it up. How is 'creative' arts going to fill in skill gaps?
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yngze
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I think the underlying problem is that the UK education system is based on specialision. Pupils chose their GCSEs and A-Levels with the mindset that they need to pick the exact subjects which will help them go to uni and/or get the best job they can, and as we're being told we have to specialise and only pick a handful, no one wants to "waste time" on creative subjects which they could do outside of school (which they don't end up doing because GCSEs and A-Levels take up so much time). Maths and English are obviously more well established, and I think that's going to stay the case because they fit so well in this specialisation system - they're seen as teaching widely-applicable skills (problem solving, writing, analysis etc) that could be useful even if you decide to change what industry you're going into.

In order to even be seriously considered, DT subjects needed to be more academic (also IT, which is slowly being phased out in favour of Computer Science anyway), because otherwise (as someone else mentioned) they just remain subjects that aren't taken seriously. However, with this change they're less appealing to students who are less maths/science-academic and better suited to creative subjects, and STILL won't be appealing to more conventionally academic students who would want to go into tech and engineering because they're safer taking Maths and sciences courses to get into those sectors anyway.

I think the same applies to all creative subjects. I would love to see more people in Music and Drama at my school, but very few people who actually have a talent for this kind of thing actually want to take them. There's too much pressure to pick academic subjects, and the thing that most people enjoy about Music, Art and Drama is the creative side, so when music theory and artist research are suddenly injected into the course after a year of practical lessons, students (at least in my school) just drop them anyway. As long as we have this system there's not much point in making creative subjects compolsury. It would be great if schools' performing arts departments got more funding to run concerts and productions so students could have experience in creative arts on the side of Maths, English and Science without having to take an exam in it (à la US high schools on TV), but not many people past Year 10 who don't take a Music or Drama course would participate because it's not going to help them get an A.
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CloudySkies238
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I did Drama at GCSE and I do not believe it should be compulsory at all, not unlike STEM subjects. I think the use of the creative arts should be just an afterschool club or something.
In my class, most of the students just chose it because it was 'reading lines off of a page' but they didn't take into account the 2 hour and 45 minutes exam, which caused them stress. Personally, I found drama to be quite stressful (yes seriously) as we had prep for performances which was 6 hours in total a week - far more hours than other subjects. We also had performances such as Rock Challenge and we worked with Frantic Assembly which ate up some more time. I was so stressed with the course as everytime we did something it was instantly changed by my teacher.
Creative arts can be fufilling and there is nothing quite like the feeling of acting on stage but it's not for everyone - the students who picked it up because it's an 'easy' subject had to work really hard on their acting. Acting doesn't come natural to everyone and even though, the spilt was 40% acting 60% writing, it still counted towards the grade.
To conclude, I'm not against the arts - I'll probably use my Drama grade more than my French grade - but if you want to do a STEM career there's not really a point in Creative Arts. You may find it helps you in some case to revise or whatever but it should really be made crucial. Anyway, the chances of actually succeeding in the career are quite slim so what's the point in making it compulsory?
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PQ
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(Original post by TensorTympani)
I do believe that. And EBACC is very important if your so interested into why it is important search it up. How is 'creative' arts going to fill in skill gaps?
Could you point me to the research the DofE used to map ebacc subjects to future skills requirements? I have searched for that and I haven’t found anything. Maybe you can help.

I have read the comprehensive research by nesta into future skills requirements, resilience of different jobs sectors ( https://www.nesta.org.uk/report/creativity-vs-robots/ ) and how vital the creative sector and creativity is to the future of the uk economy.
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TensorTympani
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(Original post by PQ)
Could you point me to the research the DofE used to map ebacc subjects to future skills requirements? I have searched for that and I haven’t found anything. Maybe you can help.

I have read the comprehensive research by nesta into future skills requirements, resilience of different jobs sectors ( https://www.nesta.org.uk/report/creativity-vs-robots/ ) and how vital the creative sector and creativity is to the future of the uk economy.
'Vital to the economy' wow what are you going to do draw pictures and sell them to different countries?
Now I see an economy just built out of creative arts.
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PQ
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(Original post by TensorTympani)
'Vital to the economy' wow what are you going to do draw pictures and sell them to different countries?
Now I see an economy just built out of creative arts.
Ummm

The creative sector currently makes up 1/7 of the UK economy and is the fastest growing sector

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...illion-barrier

And that’s JUST looking at creative industries and ignoring creative roles within other sectors.

:facepalm:

Still waiting for that link to the DofE research on the ebacc subjects.
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TensorTympani
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(Original post by PQ)
Ummm

The creative sector currently makes up 1/7 of the UK economy and is the fastest growing sector

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...illion-barrier

And that’s JUST looking at creative industries and ignoring creative roles within other sectors.

:facepalm:

Still waiting for that link to the DofE research on the ebacc subjects.
If that is what you think then so be it. :thumbsup:
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PQ
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(Original post by TensorTympani)
If that is what you think then so be it. :thumbsup:
No link then?
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TensorTympani
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(Original post by PQ)
No link then?
No find it yourself if you are so interested.
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PQ
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(Original post by TensorTympani)
No find it yourself if you are so interested.
As I said - I’ve looked and not found anything. You’re so sure it exists I’m asking you to link me to it.
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Miss Maddie
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NO WAY should we force kids to waste their time on mickey mouse subjects
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TensorTympani
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(Original post by PQ)
As I said - I’ve looked and not found anything. You’re so sure it exists I’m asking you to link me to it.
I never even mentioned the link and you ask me for that link.
Your the one who invented the idea that there was a link.
Ending the conversation here.
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