MPs to be told which way to vote on Brexit. Hardly democratic is it? Watch

RobinKent
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#1
Is there a good reason why an MP should be told by their Party whip which way they must vote on the Brexit deal?

Surely each MP should be working for the people they represent on an issue that crosses party lines in the way Brexit does, not being told what to do by their political masters?
0
reply
Everglow
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#2
Report 1 year ago
#2
It’s such a profoundly important issue which Theresa May knows she doesn’t have the backing for if she allows a free vote. The MPs have to be whipped (lol) or the vote will almost certainly go against her. But even if they are told how to vote, it doesn’t guarantee they will in fact vote that way. The Tories in particular are hardly the most unified party.
1
reply
Andrew97
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#3
Report 1 year ago
#3
The Lib Dem’s and SNP don’t need to be whipped. They will vote no regardless.

Labour will be whipped and most will follow. Although most would vote against Mrs May regardless

The conservatives will be the whipped, some will rebel. About 90 or so.

The DUP will vote against. Don’t know about if they will be whipped.
1
reply
RobinKent
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#4
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#4
Yes but should that be the case?

That will mean that a great many MPs will not represent the views of constituents on what all agree is the most important decision for a generation. It's understandable on political policy issues related to manifesto but otherwise difficult to see it as in any way democratic here. It is more akin to back door authoritarianism.

Is an MP (whatever party) there to represent you first, country second and Party third? Or Party first?
0
reply
Andrew97
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#5
Report 1 year ago
#5
(Original post by RobinKent)
Yes but should that be the case?

That will mean that a great many MPs will not represent the views of constituents on what all agree is the most important decision for a generation. It's understandable on political policy issues related to manifesto but otherwise difficult to see it as in any way democratic here. It is more akin to back door authoritarianism.

Is an MP (whatever party) there to represent you first, country second and Party third? Or Party first?
Ideally. You, country, party
In reality. Party, Country/you
0
reply
RobinKent
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#6
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#6
(Original post by Everglow)
It’s such a profoundly important issue which Theresa May knows she doesn’t have the backing for if she allows a free vote. The MPs have to be whipped (lol) or the vote will almost certainly go against her. But even if they are told how to vote, it doesn’t guarantee they will in fact vote that way. The Tories in particular are hardly the most unified party.
Conservative disagreements get most of the attention because they are in government but let's not forget the great divide in Labour. It's just not news at the moment.

Most economic commentators view the present Brexit plan as far less damaging than a Labour government under Corbyn!
Last edited by RobinKent; 1 year ago
0
reply
RobinKent
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#7
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#7
(Original post by Andrew97)
Ideally. You, country, party
In reality. Party, Country/you
Not exactly the best form of democracy then.

But one the parties are understandably keen to keep!
0
reply
Toolson
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#8
Report 1 year ago
#8
The UK constitution aims to be effective. FPTP, two-party system etc. is all there to ensure an effective government.

If MPs could vote freely on every issue it would be hard to pass anything. MPs don't vote in accordance with what a majority of their constituents want, they vote in accordance with their party. A party which has been endorsed, or not, by the country as a whole. That ensures thinking on a national basis, not a local one, which can only be a good thing.

A country where each MP voted, either in accordance with their own conscience or according to the whims of their small constituency, would be an ungovernable mess.
1
reply
RobinKent
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#9
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#9
(Original post by Toolson)
The UK constitution aims to be effective. FPTP, two-party system etc. is all there to ensure an effective government.

If MPs could vote freely on every issue it would be hard to pass anything. MPs don't vote in accordance with what a majority of their constituents want, they vote in accordance with their party. A party which has been endorsed, or not, by the country as a whole. That ensures thinking on a national basis, not a local one, which can only be a good thing.

A country where each MP voted, either in accordance with their own conscience or according to the whims of their small constituency, would be an ungovernable mess.
That much we know - it's the stock answer.

But is it really right to apply that in all circumstances and if not is Brexit one of those exceptions? There is a strong argument that each MP should set aside party politics on an issue so important and recognise that actually, 'They work of Us'. Though after the last 2 years you might struggle to prove that!
0
reply
ThomH97
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#10
Report 1 year ago
#10
If you disagree with the way your MP is to be whipped (lol) then write them an email and encourage others to do so too. I guess if you support the way they're to be whipped email them too regarding that.

That way, if they are to go against what the majority of their constituents want, they better explain it properly (or press their leader to) if they want to hold on to their seat.
1
reply
Andrew97
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#11
Report 1 year ago
#11
(Original post by ThomH97)
If you disagree with the way your MP is to be whipped (lol) then write them an email and encourage others to do so too. I guess if you support the way they're to be whipped email them too regarding that.

That way, if they are to go against what the majority of their constituents want, they better explain it properly (or press their leader to) if they want to hold on to their seat.
Bet they wouldn’t reply.

My MP was a brexiteer, I am fairly certain he will be voting in the deal and certainly won’t be VONCing Theresa May. (Due to the job he holds)
0
reply
ThomH97
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#12
Report 1 year ago
#12
(Original post by Andrew97)
Bet they wouldn’t reply.

My MP was a brexiteer, I am fairly certain he will be voting in the deal and certainly won’t be VONCing Theresa May. (Due to the job he holds)
Then follow through on your promise to vote for his leading opponent at the next election.
0
reply
StriderHort
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#13
Report 1 year ago
#13
I'm pretty sure the 'Whip' has different levels, it's only the highest 3 line Whip that is an explicit order to vote a certain way where they can face action if they refuse, the others are essentially what way the party would LIKE you to vote, and whether the vote itself is mandatory. Given it's the Brexit deal i'd expect a 2 line whip, as the Government certainly has a preference and they won't be keen to give anyone the day off from the vote. If they went for an outright 3 line whip i'd expect a fair bit of an outcry.
1
reply
ColinDent
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#14
Report 1 year ago
#14
(Original post by RobinKent)
Is there a good reason why an MP should be told by their Party whip which way they must vote on the Brexit deal?

Surely each MP should be working for the people they represent on an issue that crosses party lines in the way Brexit does, not being told what to do by their political masters?
It's always been the case but this time will not work, do you know much about John Major and his loving of the EU project? It's exactly this sort of thing that forced us to join the EU, as opposed to the EEC, in the first place, totally undemocratic and some of you wonder why more older people oppose it!
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#15
Report 1 year ago
#15
(Original post by RobinKent)
Yes but should that be the case?

That will mean that a great many MPs will not represent the views of constituents on what all agree is the most important decision for a generation. It's understandable on political policy issues related to manifesto but otherwise difficult to see it as in any way democratic here. It is more akin to back door authoritarianism.

Is an MP (whatever party) there to represent you first, country second and Party third? Or Party first?
A majority of Boris Johnson's constituents voted Remain. Thereafter in the full knowledge of his support for Brexit, they re-elected him.

A majority of Anna Soubry's constituents voted Leave. Thereafter in the full knowledge of her support for Remain they re-elected her.

Tell me how should Boris and Anna represent the views of their constituents?
0
reply
ThomH97
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#16
Report 1 year ago
#16
(Original post by nulli tertius)
A majority of Boris Johnson's constituents voted Remain. Thereafter in the full knowledge of his support for Brexit, they re-elected him.

A majority of Anna Soubry's constituents voted Leave. Thereafter in the full knowledge of her support for Remain they re-elected her.

Tell me how should Boris and Anna represent the views of their constituents?
I guess Boris' constituents choose their MP on other issues where he represents them better (dunno what, you'd have to ask them). Soubry voted for Article 50 (I did check) after seeing what herconstituents wanted, that seems a fair enough decision from her.
0
reply
Drewski
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#17
Report 1 year ago
#17
Just because the whip tells them to do something doesn't mean they have to do it.
0
reply
paul514
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#18
Report 1 year ago
#18
(Original post by RobinKent)
Is there a good reason why an MP should be told by their Party whip which way they must vote on the Brexit deal?

Surely each MP should be working for the people they represent on an issue that crosses party lines in the way Brexit does, not being told what to do by their political masters?
Which is why so many on the government side won’t vote for it.
1
reply
RobinKent
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#19
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#19
(Original post by paul514)
Which is why so many on the government side won’t vote for it.
What MPs say and what they do is very often different, with enough about turns to make a voter dizzy.

If there is one thing they are good at it is playing at politics. Much of what we see is simply politicking, grandstanding and bluff.

With several months to go before we actually leave the EU there is plenty of time for further surprise, especially from those we least expect.
0
reply
RobinKent
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#20
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#20
(Original post by nulli tertius)
A majority of Boris Johnson's constituents voted Remain. Thereafter in the full knowledge of his support for Brexit, they re-elected him.

A majority of Anna Soubry's constituents voted Leave. Thereafter in the full knowledge of her support for Remain they re-elected her.

Tell me how should Boris and Anna represent the views of their constituents?
A good comment but in fact both have a majority of conservatives who were unwilling to lose to Labour or the Lib Dems and there was no Party selection contest for their seats. It was slam dunk!

The Brexit referendum was not fought by constituency but was an aggregate of all votes. Having designed it that way the simple answer would be that each MP should do the best to represent their constituents view within that context.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Do you work while at uni?

Yes I work at university (44)
33.08%
No I don't (62)
46.62%
I work during the holidays (27)
20.3%

Watched Threads

View All