MPs to be told which way to vote on Brexit. Hardly democratic is it? Watch

paul514
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#21
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#21
(Original post by RobinKent)
What MPs say and what they do is very often different, with enough about turns to make a voter dizzy.

If there is one thing they are good at it is playing at politics. Much of what we see is simply politicking, grandstanding and bluff.

With several months to go before we actually leave the EU there is plenty of time for further surprise, especially from those we least expect.
True enough! I don’t expect the much vaunted number of 80 conservatives voting against the deal but it will be more than enough voting against it along side the DUP to outweigh the labour MP’s that cross the floor.

In short there’s not a cat in hells chance of it passing first time on the vote.
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RobinKent
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#22
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#22
(Original post by paul514)
True enough! I don’t expect the much vaunted number of 80 conservatives voting against the deal but it will be more than enough voting against it along side the DUP to outweigh the labour MP’s that cross the floor.

In short there’s not a cat in hells chance of it passing first time on the vote.
First being the operative word...
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paul514
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(Original post by RobinKent)
First being the operative word...
Personally I don’t think it will pass a second but it may have a chance
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RobinKent
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#24
(Original post by paul514)
Personally I don’t think it will pass a second but it may have a chance
Perhaps a third?!!!

There are news articles appearing suggesting people and business want a deal done. If that trend continues many MPs will eventually run with it. In the short term they will attempt to get a break clause on backstop.
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paul514
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(Original post by RobinKent)
Perhaps a third?!!!

There are news articles appearing suggesting people and business want a deal done. If that trend continues many MPs will eventually run with it. In the short term they will attempt to get a break clause on backstop.
People like me can weigh up the deal based on its merits IF we are unilaterally allowed to leave a backstop.
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mojojojo101
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The vast, vast majority of votes in both houses are whipped, why should this one be any different?
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by paul514)
People like me can weigh up the deal based on its merits IF we are unilaterally allowed to leave a backstop.
Do you want to try negotiating that one.

“We agree that there will be no hard border with Ireland but we reserve the right to welch on that deal whenever it is convenient in UK domestic politics”.

See how that one goes down in Dublin or with her allies.
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paul514
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Do you want to try negotiating that one.

“We agree that there will be no hard border with Ireland but we reserve the right to welch on that deal whenever it is convenient in UK domestic politics”.

See how that one goes down in Dublin or with her allies.
That assumes I want her type of deal... I don’t.

Canada or no deal with an implementation period for me thanks
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by paul514)
That assumes I want her type of deal... I don’t.

Canada or no deal with an implementation period for me thanks
No that assumes you want any sort of deal, including a deal that merely postpones the effects of a no deal Brexit for an implementation period after 29 March.

The EU have been firm that they won’t chuck Ireland under the bus and sign up to anything without a watertight permanent guarantee of no hard border in Ireland.

The only Brexit that preserves our freedom of action in relation to the Irish border is a chaotic one on 29 March.

The convoluted Irish backstop is purely a result of the the DUP’s selective memory regarding differences between the legal regime in GB and NI. There was no mention of the unacceptability of a border down the Irish Sea when Foster was calling for Corporation Tax in NI to be reduced to match the Irish Republic rate several points below the rate in GB.
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RobinKent
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#30
(Original post by nulli tertius)
No that assumes you want any sort of deal, including a deal that merely postpones the effects of a no deal Brexit for an implementation period after 29 March.

The EU have been firm that they won’t chuck Ireland under the bus and sign up to anything without a watertight permanent guarantee of no hard border in Ireland.

The only Brexit that preserves our freedom of action in relation to the Irish border is a chaotic one on 29 March.

The convoluted Irish backstop is purely a result of the the DUP’s selective memory regarding differences between the legal regime in GB and NI. There was no mention of the unacceptability of a border down the Irish Sea when Foster was calling for Corporation Tax in NI to be reduced to match the Irish Republic rate several points below the rate in GB.
It is an inconvenient truth that politics is often about politics.

It would be highly unusual for such good friends and significant trading partners not to agree a pragmatic solution. Until the Trade framework is agreed it would be impossible to agree how to extend the existing use of off-border checks, VAT collection etc.

I dislike the one-way option but view it as an option for the EU to apply Sanctions, highly damaging to relations and consequently almost impossible to justify at the point of implementation.
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paul514
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#31
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#31
(Original post by nulli tertius)
No that assumes you want any sort of deal, including a deal that merely postpones the effects of a no deal Brexit for an implementation period after 29 March.

The EU have been firm that they won’t chuck Ireland under the bus and sign up to anything without a watertight permanent guarantee of no hard border in Ireland.

The only Brexit that preserves our freedom of action in relation to the Irish border is a chaotic one on 29 March.

The convoluted Irish backstop is purely a result of the the DUP’s selective memory regarding differences between the legal regime in GB and NI. There was no mention of the unacceptability of a border down the Irish Sea when Foster was calling for Corporation Tax in NI to be reduced to match the Irish Republic rate several points below the rate in GB.
No deal isn’t a deal and the Canada deal has been offered to the UK.

The EU won’t sign I deal over the well overblown Irish issue whilst we want to stay mega close to them it’s a bargaining position.
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