Have your say: Women gain higher earnings boosts after studying at university Watch

Doonesbury
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Article in BBC News:

Women are much more likely than men to get an increase in earnings from going to university, says an analysis of salaries at the age of 29.

The study, from the Department for Education and Institute for Fiscal Studies, says women with a degree earn 28% more than non-graduate women.

Men with degrees earn an average of 8% more than non-graduates.

BBC News - Women gain higher earnings from degrees
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46345527
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Doonesbury
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Same data, different headline...

University education does not close pay gap for women in England
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampp...-women-england
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swelshie
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Page 15 I think shows pay gaps: https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/13731
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Trapmoneybenny
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
Same data, different headline...

University education does not close pay gap for women in England
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampp...-women-england
It's almost hurts me to read a guardian headline.
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PQ
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It's very interesting, and shows some of the complexity of the issues around employment. One thing that's ignored is that although the men graduates have higher earnings (which they do - it's just that non grad men have earnings closer to grads....this doesn't show that women are earning more than men it shows that the difference of a degree is more marked for women) they also have higher levels of unemployment...unpicking the reasons behind that is really important before drawing conclusions based on the average salaries of people employed.

I doubt it will actually influence policy positively though.

As ever they've stuck with the standard LEO data and excluded self employment so the picture for people working in the creative sector is massively skewed.
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PQ
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p66
"in every subject there is at least one institution with negative and one with positive average returns. Simply choosing the right subject or the right university is not enough to guarantee a high average return to HE."
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Doonesbury
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(Original post by PQ)
p66
"in every subject there is at least one institution with negative and one with positive average returns. Simply choosing the right subject or the right university is not enough to guarantee a high average return to HE."
Indeed, it's very complex.

And in other news I hadn't realised they had released LEO data for postgrads/doctorates.

https://wonkhe.com/blogs/postgraduate-leo-2018-edition/
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PQ
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
Indeed, it's very complex.

And in other news I hadn't realised they had released LEO data for postgrads/doctorates.

https://wonkhe.com/blogs/postgraduate-leo-2018-edition/
nor had I :o:

the leo data just annoys me because they wont release enough to properly play with it
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Dandaman1
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I'd wager it's probability because non-graduate men still work well-paying jobs and more hours in construction and other more profitable industries, making a degree less of a step-up for their wage prospects.

Interesting that The Guardian is still trying to frame this as a negative for women somehow.
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Guru Jason
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I would think this is down to pay being different to earning. I suspect the average degree holding women is more career focused than family focused. Less children means more time in work means more earnings.

Men on the other hand probably spend the same amount of time in work so the man without the degree has more time to earn money than his female counterpart who I imagine to be family orientated.

So if degree men and women are paid the same and non degree men and women are paid the same (but less than at degree level) then this might explain why degree level women earn more week it being paid the same.

I know this is all speculation but it make sense to me.
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Doonesbury
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(Original post by Guru Jason)
So if degree men and women are paid the same and non degree men and women are paid the same (but less than at degree level) then this might explain why degree level women earn more week it being paid the same.

I know this is all speculation but it make sense to me.
?

It's total earnings as measured by HMRC, which is pretty much PAYE for this exercise.
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Guru Jason
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
?

It's total earnings as measured by HMRC, which is pretty much PAYE for this exercise.
Yeah but your paye isn't going to show as much if people have time off work for children is it not? Paye shows salary no?
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TheTroll73
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gender gap reversed

men are not happy
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chazwomaq
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These are earnings gaps, not pay gaps (the BBC reports this correctly, the Guardian does not).

This has always been the case. I thought the obvious answer was that men tend to work whether they have degrees or not, whereas women without degrees are much more likely to have kids earlier and stay at home or work part time and thus earn less than female graduates who work more.
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PQ
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(Original post by TheTroll73)
gender gap reversed

men are not happy
read the report

average grad pay at 29 is ~ £35k for men and around £30k for women. It's just that non graduate men earn close to the same amount (especially when quals and background are adjusted for) whereas non graduate women earn a lot less even when adjusting for other influences.
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TheTroll73
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(Original post by PQ)
read the report

average grad pay at 29 is ~ £35k for men and around £30k for women. It's just that non graduate men earn close to the same amount (especially when quals and background are adjusted for) whereas non graduate women earn a lot less even when adjusting for other influences.
I wasn't serious but thanks anyway
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PQ
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(Original post by TheTroll73)
I wasn't serious but thanks anyway
the press coverage is admittedly dire...
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Good bloke
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
University education does not close pay gap for women in England
It is seriously worrying that either the journalists at a supposedly reputable news paper do not understand why the so-called gender pay gap arises or, perhaps worse, they do understand and are prepared to spin headlines and mislead their readership in pursuit of their agenda.
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Doonesbury
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(Original post by Guru Jason)
Yeah but your paye isn't going to show as much if people have time off work for children is it not? Paye shows salary no?
Yes it does. But how is that different to your definition of "earnings"? You specifically said "if they are paid the same".

And the data is for early stage earnings when most women grads haven't yet have taken time off for children.
Last edited by Doonesbury; 2 weeks ago
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Dandaman1)
I'd wager it's probability because non-graduate men still work well-paying jobs and more hours in construction and other more profitable industries, making a degree less of a step-up for their wage prospects.

Interesting that The Guardian is still trying to frame this as a negative for women somehow.
Well you have just said none graduate women earn less doing working class jobs thanh men. That's a negative if you are a working class woman.
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