Turn on thread page Beta

Have your say: Women gain higher earnings boosts after studying at university watch

Announcements
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    I was arguing against the fact women are somehow blocked from entering trades. They evidently aren't and can pursue careers in whatever they wish.

    Of course people are affected by their environments, but that's not the same as not having the option to do something.
    But no one said they weren’t allowed to enter? People are simply recognising the role of our social environment, social norms and expectations. You seem to desregard it.
    • Very Important Poster
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Smack)
    You can apply for various positions or training schemes that are engineering related (the most common and well known of which is probably an apprenticeship), and then work your way into an engineering position.
    Absolutely. And I’d be willing to bet that people taking that route make up some of the 5% of “high academic attainment, a STEM A level and no degree” men who are mentioned in the report as having an average salary of £40k at age 29.

    But it’s still a non standard path. Even the report urges caution against using that minority to draw conclusions due to the anomalous data.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Waldorf67)
    Ahh the age old I have a friend of a friend whose niece is a plumber argument.

    That’s completely irrelevant, we can all pick out anecdotal evidence to support any argument.
    Joe Bloggs smoked 40 a day and lived to 90, therefore smoking does not relate to premature deaths.

    If you don’t believe that the social environment in any way impacts behaviour and development then I highly recommend you order yourself a copy of Psychology for Idiots. Because that isn’t even up for debate.

    You’re arguing against decades upon decades of evidence. You’re even arguing against basic common sense, that humans are influenced by their social environment.
    It funny that my a female black friend who electrician earn £40000 a year working with white working class men who treat her nothing but respected.

    I know a young man who tried working at a play school he was made feel like a sex offender he was not allowed to do nappy changing when female staff were. Parents complain that man was working at the play school.

    He was made to feel like a criminal and left after two weeks it was a shame he very good with the children
    • Very Important Poster
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Waldorf67)
    1. Do you know what a HNC or HND qualification is?
    2. Did you not read the apprenticeship for GE’s Aviation?
    3. Since when did I say that there are more engineers from apprenticeships than degrees? Please state where I said that?
    4. Did you not see my post saying that they may not be accredited engineers but work within the engineering field and earn a decent wage?

    Stop wasting my time with your silly defensive reaction about engineering. I can hazard a guess that you are an engineering student who doesn’t like the thought of being undercut by this working class riff raff.
    1. Do you? Having sat on a course validation board for HNCs and HNDs I have a pretty good understanding of them thanks.
    2. No. I’m on a phone and the link didn’t open. One vacancy advert is just that.
    3. When you said “Men are more likely to enter into higher earning jobs that do not require a degree. For example engineering” your implication is that engineering is a non graduate job (like your other examples of electrician and builder). I’m guessing that you see that and that’s why you have now edited your post.
    4. So you aren’t talking about engineering jobs - you’re talking about technician and related jobs.

    Instead of getting defensive, patronising me ( “hunny” ), implying that I’m over defensive based on my own degree (not true - I didn’t study engineering and I don’t work in engineering), wasting my time and editing your posts....Maybe just admit that your example of a well paid non grad job wasn’t very good.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PQ)
    Absolutely. And I’d be willing to bet that people taking that route make up some of the 5% of “high academic attainment, a STEM A level and no degree” men who are mentioned in the report as having an average salary of £40k at age 29.

    But it’s still a non standard path. Even the report urges caution against using that minority to draw conclusions due to the anomalous data.
    You are simply clueless.
    It’s funny because it shows how detached you must be from the working class population. I know so many men who did engineering apprenticeships and there’s you acting as if it’s the craziest idea in the world

    #Clueless
    • Very Important Poster
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Waldorf67)
    You are simply clueless.
    It’s funny because it shows how detached you must be from the working class population. I know so many men who did engineering apprenticeships and there’s you acting as if it’s the craziest idea in the world

    #Clueless
    Anecdote <> data

    Why resort to insults based on your assumptions about my socioeconomic background?
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PQ)
    1. Do you? Having sat on a course validation board for HNCs and HNDs I have a pretty good understanding of them thanks.
    2. No. I’m on a phone and the link didn’t open. One vacancy advert is just that.
    3. When you said “Men are more likely to enter into higher earning jobs that do not require a degree. For example engineering” your implication is that engineering is a non graduate job (like your other examples of electrician and builder). I’m guessing that you see that and that’s why you have now edited your post.
    4. So you aren’t talking about engineering jobs - you’re talking about technician and related jobs.

    Instead of getting defensive, patronising me ( “hunny” ), implying that I’m over defensive based on my own degree (not true - I didn’t study engineering and I don’t work in engineering), wasting my time and editing your posts....Maybe just admit that your example of a well paid non grad job wasn’t very good.
    So then you should then know that you do not need to go to University to have one? Well done this is a step in the right direction! :

    I have not even edited that post, talk about clutching at straws. You can work in medicine and not be a Doctor, you can walk in Psychology and not be a Psychologist. And guess what’s next? You can actually work in engineering and not be an accredited engineer! Calm the palpitations.

    No, because you really are clueless. There are so many engineering apprenticeships out there, and it actually really irks me that someone like you is completely disregarding them.
    They open a lot of doors for people who are not suited to the typical academic setting. But for some reason you want to stay ignorant and refuse to believe they exist.

    If you think being called “hunny” is patronising imagine how patronising it is to be told you’ve confused a car mechanic with an engineer. :rofl:

    You could easily hit Google and look up engineering apprenticeships in your local area, and see a decent amount of results. But instead choose to stay ignorant, for whatever sad reason you must have.

    Just keep on refusing to recognise a substantial number of the workforce for your own little reasons. Pathetic.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PQ)
    Anecdote <> data

    Why resort to insults based on your assumptions about my socioeconomic background?
    Better to have an anecdote than a statistic plucked purely from your own biases.

    “make up some of the 5% of “high academic attainment, a STEM A level and no degree”.

    And one instance is enough to prove the existence of something, is it not.

    You’ve completely failed to show me that engineering apprenticeships don’t exist? At most you’ve admitted that they do exist but aren’t as high in number as engineering degrees.

    Do you see that? Give up cherub.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    wtf. Why am I going to uni then only 8%
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    • Very Important Poster
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Waldorf67)
    Better to have an anecdote than a statistic plucked purely from your own biases

    “make up some of the 5% of “high academic attainment, a STEM A level and no degree”.

    You’ve completely failed to show me that engineering apprenticeships don’t exist? At most you’ve admitted that they do exist but aren’t as high in number as engineering degrees.

    Do you see that? Give up cherub.
    It’s in the report referenced in the OP. As I stated when I mentioned that stat. Do you want a page number? If so you’ll need to wait until I’m on a pc and not my phone. Or are you just wasting my time again by shifting your argument again to pick a fight instead of just answering a simple question.

    Engineering UK have stats on the number of people completing engineering apprenticeships v degrees.

    “You could easily hit Google and look up engineering” Statistics. “But instead choose to stay ignorant, for whatever sad reason you must have.”

    (Oh and your posts SHOW that they were edited and when so I don’t know why you’re denying it?)
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by PQ)
    Absolutely. And I’d be willing to bet that people taking that route make up some of the 5% of “high academic attainment, a STEM A level and no degree” men who are mentioned in the report as having an average salary of £40k at age 29.

    But it’s still a non standard path. Even the report urges caution against using that minority to draw conclusions due to the anomalous data.
    Yes I fully agree that engineering without a degree is a non-standard path these days. It is still a possible path though, and as you say those who do it may be counted in the 5%. And, unfortunately, I think these kinds of career paths are much more attractive to males, which helps those without degrees in terms of earnings relative to females.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PQ)
    It’s in the report referenced in the OP. As I stated when I mentioned that stat. Do you want a page number? If so you’ll need to wait until I’m on a pc and not my phone. Or are you just wasting my time again by shifting your argument again to pick a fight instead of just answering a simple question.

    Engineering UK have stats on the number of people completing engineering apprenticeships v degrees.

    “You could easily hit Google and look up engineering” Statistics. “But instead choose to stay ignorant, for whatever sad reason you must have.”

    (Oh and your posts SHOW that they were edited and when so I don’t know why you’re denying it?)
    The 5% stat? Yeah show me the page number.

    Which post are you even talking about? I’m not denying I edited my posts but I certainly did not do it to “change my argument”. I likely just edited it to word myself better. In fact if you are talking about my very first post I edited that before I even received your response. :rofl:

    And either way my edit makes no alteration to my argument...

    Quips aside I am honestly so confused as to why you’re denying the existence of engineering apprenticeships while simultaneously stating that they exist? I honestly do not understand this at all.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    That is irrelevant. Many men lack confidence too. Ultimately it is for the people involved to decide if they want to pursue a given occupation.
    And more women lack confidence than men, that's the point. Speaking as a man that lacks confidence I have never been in a professional position where being a man did not help.The advantage of never being 'the one women' in a male dominated area, or the even greater advantage of not having to fear being sexually assaulted in the work place.

    Spoiler:
    Show




    The examples you gave agree with me not you. Nice try though.



    • Very Important Poster
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Waldorf67)
    The 5% stat? Yeah show me the page number.

    Which post are you even talking about? I’m not denying I edited my posts but I certainly did not do it to “change my argument”. I likely just edited it to word myself better. In fact if you are talking about my very first post I edited that before I even received your response. :rofl:

    And either way my edit makes no alteration to my argument...

    Quips aside I am honestly so confused as to why you’re denying the existence of engineering apprenticeships while simultaneously stating that they exist? I honestly do not understand this at all.

    Name:  9841AA3C-83CC-408B-A591-BBD2C425DEB0.png
Views: 7
Size:  47.5 KB
    Name:  7320FDAF-3D09-49FE-B614-0ED1E00D02BA.png
Views: 7
Size:  84.1 KB(That bits from the last page).

    I’m not denying that apprenticeships exist. I was (and am) questioning your use of engineer as a non-grad job along the same lines as electricians and builders. They’re very different careers and apprenticeships are a minority route. It’s like giving the example or paramedic because older paramedics trained without a degree and ambulance drivers don’t need a degree.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    And more women lack confidence than men, that's the point
    You appear to be heading towards a position where everyone should be paid the same for all jobs to ensure a level playing field for those without confidence, good personal skills, good self-organisation, need to care for children, you name it.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    there doesnt need to be an article about this. it's quite obvious that for one, if you have a degree you can apply for entry level roles that are higher earning even without work experience, and that two: women do better than men in many communities. The glass ceiling actually affects men of all colours and certain women of colour, more than the majority of women. If you're a working class white man, a black man of any kind, or an uneducated or working class or dark Asian male, good luck competing with your own women let alone others and let alone well off white men of all ages for stable work, hence single parent homes and poverty and increasing crime!
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    You appear to be heading towards a position where everyone should be paid the same for all jobs to ensure a level playing field for those without confidence, good personal skills, good self-organisation, need to care for children, you name it.
    I'm not sure what that has to do with my post you were replying to.

    In every job I have done I have seen sexism against women. And you can't paint it has a triggered snowflake. I've seen young women pinned to the ground by creepy older men, never mind just casual sexism.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I've seen young women pinned to the ground by creepy older men, never mind just casual sexism.
    I trust you reported it to the police. Nothing less is acceptable. That is not sexism; that is assault and abuse.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I trust you reported it to the police. Nothing less is acceptable. That is not sexism; that is assault and abuse.
    It's the exteme end of the nature of being a woman in the workforce. Especially when you get in "blokey" areas. Eg stuff like plumbing...
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It's the exteme end of the nature of being a woman in the workforce..
    Such behaviour is criminal. Did you report it or were you complicit in normalising it?
 
 
 
Poll
Were you ever put in isolation at school?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.