Anonymous #1
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Hi everyone

I'm a final year medic who is trying to work out what a typical FY1 rota is like. To make things a bit simpler, let's say the rotation I am about to start is a general medicine rotation or geriatrics. I spoke to one F1 who said she does 2-3 nights per 4-month rotation. Does that sound about right or does it depend on the hospital? How about weekends? I think that's the thing I'm most curious about. Is 1:4 weekends typical for a 4-month medical rotation or do you do less as an F1? I realise these must depend on the hospital so I think it makes more sense to share what your experiences were in F1.

Does the frequency of weekends depend on the specialty? I assume medicine and surgery rotations might be similar in terms of frequency but please correct me if I'm wrong. Are there any specialties in FY1 that don't involve weekends? I'm asking because I want to do weekends, not because I am trying to avoid it. I know GP in FY2 probably doesn't involve weekends and possibly psych too but again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm mainly just trying to work out how much I'd approximately get paid. I know your rota is given to you but I guess what I am struggling with is knowing what the rota itself is like typically.

I will definitely speak to the F1 again. But any extra info from people in different regions/hospitals would be very useful.

Sorry for the long post, I am just looking to find out what the frequency of nights and weekends is as an F1.

Thanks everyone!
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navarre
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Nearly finished my first rotation. Had 7 nights over the four months, and worked around 1:3 weekends. However, my next rotation, in psych, is 9-5 with absolutely no nights or weekends.
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hslakaal
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Not an F1 but some trusts in my region (South London) don't permit F1s to be on nights. Long days are the closest thing to nights. (or twilight)
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Newtothis83
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Basic is in the region of 1700 after deductions. (Outside of London)

Any added hours is obviously more. In theory 6 weeks before your start date you are given the calculated salary, you just have to prorate it.



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purplefrog
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Sorry for the long post, I am just looking to find out what the frequency of nights and weekends is as an F1.
As you said, it will vary from hospital-to-hospital, even within the same deanery.
If you're a London F1, you don't do nights at all.
GP F2s don't typically do nights, however they may be expected to contribute towards the on-call rota in certain random specialties or do some A&E shifts on the weekends. Alternatively, they could literally just have 4 months of working their GP job.
I've worked in 2 medical jobs. One of mine was an F1 in acute where I did 1:2 weekends and 50% of the rota was nights. All shifts were 12.5 hours.

Within my Trust there are several divisions of surgery which all operate autonomously from each other (Vasc/HPB, Trauma/Ortho, Plastics, Urology, BrEndo, Lower GI, Upper GI) and their on-call commitments vary substantially. Some had most standard surgical days (~0745-1700) with 'lates' being 1300-2030 and nights being 2030-0745. Others had 1400-0200 on-calls. And all had differing numbers of F1s/F2s on call with vastly different responsibilities. Speaking to friends who've done 'identical' placements (i.e., HPB), our workloads wrt hours have been immensely variable, with no correlation between size of centre / whether it's tertiary or not etc.

In some places the general surgery rota is awful while in others it's the most chill thing ever. So one of my friends doing Upper GI/Vascular/Acute in F1 had a catastrophic social life; while I (in a hospital 40 mins away) did Vascular/Acute/Respiratory and generally fared far better while yet another friend in another deanery had Resp/Acute/ General:Vasc (50:50) /Cardio and had a shocker of a rota too.

If your aim is to estimate salary, you can pretty much be sure that you'll probably be earning ~28-30k in F1 (26k base salary + shadowing week pay + in all likelihood at least 2 jobs will have out-of-hours commitments uplifting your pay +/- London weighting). If you want something more granular, you'll need to look at individual hospitals and speak to F1s working there...
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Democracy
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My GP FY2 job involved 1:4 weekends on call for gen med ward cover at the local DGH - same thing for microbiology and palliative medicine FY2s. The psych FY2s had to do surgical ward cover.

My FY1 job in anaesthetics/ITU was four days a week (8-6) with no nights or weekends i.e. I had four months of three day weekends over the summer. I was so spoilt by the end of it.

I had to do nights as an FY1 in medicine and surgery. I have a friend in a different deanery who didn't do nights at all until FY2.

I think it's all highly variable and probably depends a great deal on how stretched that particular hospital is for cover, and of course, "local policy".
Last edited by Democracy; 2 years ago
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fishfacesimpson
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As above nights are becoming increasingly infrequent for F1s. In and around London I can't remember hearing about f1 nights for a while now. The "old" horror stories of f1s being left alone with hundreds of medical or surgical pts are probably less frequent now although rota gaps make them a possibility on any job anywhere. As others have said it's very variable even within small regions
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Wolfy^
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Coming to the end of a medical job with general medical (mainly COTE) on-calls. My on-call shifts have been:



2 sets of weekend day-time cover

2 sets of weekend nights

2 sets of twilights (17:00-22:00)

2 sets of week-time nights

(Original post by purplefrog)
As you said, it will vary from hospital-to-hospital, even within the same deanery.
If you're a London F1, you don't do nights at all.
GP F2s don't typically do nights, however they may be expected to contribute towards the on-call rota in certain random specialties or do some A&E shifts on the weekends. Alternatively, they could literally just have 4 months of working their GP job.
I've worked in 2 medical jobs. One of mine was an F1 in acute where I did 1:2 weekends and 50% of the rota was nights. All shifts were 12.5 hours.

Within my Trust there are several divisions of surgery which all operate autonomously from each other (Vasc/HPB, Trauma/Ortho, Plastics, Urology, BrEndo, Lower GI, Upper GI) and their on-call commitments vary substantially. Some had most standard surgical days (~0745-1700) with 'lates' being 1300-2030 and nights being 2030-0745. Others had 1400-0200 on-calls. And all had differing numbers of F1s/F2s on call with vastly different responsibilities. Speaking to friends who've done 'identical' placements (i.e., HPB), our workloads wrt hours have been immensely variable, with no correlation between size of centre / whether it's tertiary or not etc.

In some places the general surgery rota is awful while in others it's the most chill thing ever. So one of my friends doing Upper GI/Vascular/Acute in F1 had a catastrophic social life; while I (in a hospital 40 mins away) did Vascular/Acute/Respiratory and generally fared far better while yet another friend in another deanery had Resp/Acute/ General:Vasc (50:50) /Cardio and had a shocker of a rota too.

If your aim is to estimate salary, you can pretty much be sure that you'll probably be earning ~28-30k in F1 (26k base salary + shadowing week pay + in all likelihood at least 2 jobs will have out-of-hours commitments uplifting your pay +/- London weighting). If you want something more granular, you'll need to look at individual hospitals and speak to F1s working there...
Is this Northern deanery by any chance? This sounds very familiar.
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Cheesychips1
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As an f1 in London my current surgical rota is predominately normal days, 1 in 6 weekends where you do a 12 hour shift on the Friday Saturday and Sunday, and an on call evening shift every 10ish days. For my next two medical jobs it’s 1 in 4 weekends but you don’t have to do the 12h shift on a Friday, and then a different mix of on call shifts.

It massively varies though basically by every hospital and department - as everyone has said.
Ie I’m on ortho and the gen surg f1s af the same hospital have a different pattern where they do a whole week on take, a whole week post take etc.

My f1 friend who is in Yorkshire has a pretty tough rota on gen surg - a week of nights (2 on 2 off, 3 on 2 off roughly) , then some zero days, then a week on call (12h shifts), then a week ‘floating’ and helping out different teams, then a weekend or weekend nights.

A&E you have more weekends, where I work psych/GP don’t do any weekends.
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Ghotay
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I had 14 nights per 4 month block in all my F1 jobs. Sounds like I did more than is typical then?
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Lionheartat20
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We do F1 nights within the South Thanks Deanery; surprised others said it's no longer a thing. We cover all Surgical patients overnight ie over one hundred patients with an SHO (and a SpR clerking new admissions). I've had 7 nights in a 2 month block (and no nights in the other part of the rotation).
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Shirley999
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Hi Guys , do Geriatrics & Clinical Oncology go under "Medical Jobs" or are they classified as unbanded as an FY1? Thank you
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Democracy
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(Original post by Shirley999)
Hi Guys , do Geriatrics & Clinical Oncology go under "Medical Jobs" or are they classified as unbanded as an FY1? Thank you
Geriatrics is definitely a medical job. I don't see why you wouldn't be doing medical on calls for that unless your hospital has special rules for FY1s.

Clinical oncology I'm not sure about. It's not really a medical specialty but possibly they may stick you on some sort of on call rota in order to make up the numbers?
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fishfacesimpson
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(10 years ago) We used to do evenings and weekends on clinical oncology but not nights. We were on rota with shos (f2 through to ct2) shared with haematology.
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Anonymous #2
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We just got a response from SGUL and I just cannot believe how they could do that us. They more or less said, if you cannot sit the exams in 2 weeks time due to being ill or having to return home urgently, you'll risk deferring your studies for a year.

in utter shock how they can just essentially threaten us like that..
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arch2
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(Original post by Anonymous)
We just got a response from SGUL and I just cannot believe how they could do that us. They more or less said, if you cannot sit the exams in 2 weeks time due to being ill or having to return home urgently, you'll risk deferring your studies for a year.

in utter shock how they can just essentially threaten us like that..
That can’t be right.. if you’re in final year they will have to do everything possible to ensure that you graduate
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Anonymous #2
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(Original post by arch2)
That can’t be right.. if you’re in final year they will have to do everything possible to ensure that you graduate
That's exactly what we've just been told - any idea how we can contact GMC/MSC? Some countries including Canadian govt is urging people to come back while they still can.

A lot of us are in tears because we do not have any financial means to defer for a year, some of us have sold everything of ours to come here to study..and will be left with nothing. They are forcing us to pick between family vs career. Completely shocked..

Dear International MBBS students,

We do appreciate the stress that our International students are under, given the rapidly changing situation regarding flight bans. Your safety and well being is at the heart of planning, as well as the safety of patients and staff who teach you.

We cannot give you answers to all your uncertainties, but this may help you make a decision today about your response to the International flight bans.
Some students may prefer to return home, if home is abroad. We totally appreciate the reasons our International students may prefer that, and support the choice of students to do that if that is their decision, and will support them as far as we can whilst away, and on their return.

For all students, we are aiming to reconstitute and reform future clinical teaching, with the aim of not delaying student progression overall. This will require substantial planning and therefore details can not be announced until a later date. Work is being done to reconfigure courses and assessments for MBBS in all years.

For Final year MBBS students, we are aiming for a further opportunity to take FY assessments in June, if people are unwell or absent in March/April, if the Covid 19 situation in the UK allows that. We are, of course, also looking at options for remote delivery, but there is uncertainty as to whether that will be an option.

If international students do choose to return home abroad now, there will be uncertainty about when they will be able to return to the UK, or what quarantine restrictions may exist for travellers on their return. The current situation is predicted to last some months. Potentially, students may therefore miss some of the Course, and Assessments and may need to defer studies for a year, including qualification. We of course appreciate the pressures students are feeling of wanting to be near family and home, and support students to do that, if that is their preference. And will do our best to support them out of the country, and when they return.

We are working hard to flex the Course and Assessments, for the over-riding safety of students and patients, and there will be further information released when arrangements are concrete. We are afraid this won't be today or tomorrow.

'The MBBS Course Team'
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username1539381
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(Original post by Democracy)
My GP FY2 job involved 1:4 weekends on call for gen med ward cover at the local DGH - same thing for microbiology and palliative medicine FY2s. The psych FY2s had to do surgical ward cover.

My FY1 job in anaesthetics/ITU was four days a week (8-6) with no nights or weekends i.e. I had four months of three day weekends over the summer. I was so spoilt by the end of it.

I had to do nights as an FY1 in medicine and surgery. I have a friend in a different deanery who didn't do nights at all until FY2.

I think it's all highly variable and probably depends a great deal on how stretched that particular hospital is for cover, and of course, "local policy".
hey, is this typical of ITU placements to have this/generally chill for F1?
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Democracy
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(Original post by medicalstuff)
hey, is this typical of ITU placements to have this/generally chill for F1?
You can't be put on call for anaesthetics or ICM as an FY1 so generally speaking FY1 jobs in anaesthetics/ICM are supernumerary i.e. normal working hours only, lots of supervision, there for your learning etc. My hours were 08:00-18:00 so I made up 37.5 hours a week after four days, which is where the day off came from (I think). I don't know if other ITUs operate such a system for their FY1s - this was also a few years ago when we were switching from the old contract to the current one.

I have heard of some hospitals putting their anaesthetics/ICM FY1s on the general surgical on-call rota, so those jobs will be busier.
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nexttime
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(Original post by Anonymous)
We just got a response from SGUL and I just cannot believe how they could do that us. They more or less said, if you cannot sit the exams in 2 weeks time due to being ill or having to return home urgently, you'll risk deferring your studies for a year.

in utter shock how they can just essentially threaten us like that..
You haven't really got much of an argument right now.

As soon as they are cancelled, you do. Its also just bizarre they'd want to skip a year of students - they'd lose so much income, hospitals relying on them would be screwed over...

I would wait until they are officially cancelled then re-establish their position, making sure there is an email chain. Then raise it as high as you can.
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