Turn on thread page Beta

Grandma mistakenly booked into all-male jail, staff thought she was transgender watch

Announcements
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Fox-house?
    Fair point, the metaphor was stretched to breaking point.
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    So, by 'black people' you meant 'people of any given race'?
    If you want to be pendantic and ignore that historically racism in western countries has been directed primarily at black people, yes, substitute in BAME instead. Not that it changes the point about victim blaming.

    (Original post by Napp)
    whilst this is a dreadfully unfortunate occurrence for the person concerned i fail to see how this can be described as "transphobic" seeing as she was in fact a woman.
    Ok, ignoring that "real woman" is a transphobic remark (suggesting that trans women aren't real...), you don't need to be trans to experience the results of transphobia on a day to day basis because discrimination like this affects those who are perceived as being in that group, regardless of whether they are or not - so transphobia also affects GNC cis people as well
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)

    Ok, ignoring that "real woman" is a transphobic remark (suggesting that trans women aren't real...),
    In your opinion maybe.
    And where did one suggest they don't exist? I don't recall making any such suggestion and you'd do well to apologise for lying on that count.
    you don't need to be trans to experience the results of transphobia on a day to day basis because discrimination like this affects those who are perceived as being in that group, regardless of whether they are or not - so transphobia also affects GNC cis people as well
    You could just say normal people instead of these utterly ridiculous little adjectives.
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Napp)
    In your opinion maybe.
    And where did one suggest they don't exist? I don't recall making any such suggestion and you'd do well to apologise for lying on that count.

    You could just say normal people instead of these utterly ridiculous little adjectives.
    No, referring to cis people (cis is not a ridiculous adjective, it's the antonym of trans) as real and normal, implying then that trans people are fake or abnormal, is transphobic. Nor did I lie there, you referred to the woman in the story as a real woman, with the obvious implication being that trans women aren't real women...
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    No, referring to cis people (cis is not a ridiculous adjective, it's the antonym of trans) as real and normal, implying then that trans people are fake or abnormal, is transphobic.
    I am perfectly aware of what it means but nevertheless it is still ridiculous. If trans people don't want to be called ******* or what not as they consider it offensive then i'd ask you stop referring to me as "cis", period.
    Normal simply means 'conforming to a standard: usual, typical or expected' ergo if you're born with a vagina and identifying as a woman is normal as the vast majority of people do that. Getting all pissy at being abnormal [which doesnt necessarily imply a negative connotation] is simply pety and frankly rather whiny in this instance. It does little more than validate the opinions of people who say that certain people are looking to get offended and get their knickers in a twist.
    Equally why do you all simply stick phobic on the end of any and every word you can lay your hands on? It's really getting a little much now, surely?
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Napp)
    I am perfectly aware of what it means but nevertheless it is still ridiculous. If trans people don't want to be called t*****s or what not as they consider it offensive then i'd ask you stop referring to me as "cis", period.
    The two are not comparable, and any reasonable person would know that. T***** is a slur with a long history, cis is merely a Latin prefix meaning "on the same side of" (as opposed to trans: "on the opposite side of") and with nothing else behind it. It's a completely necessary adjective - as demonstrated in the post you took objection to - GNC cis people are people who don't abide by traditional gender standards for their assigned at birth gender, but identify with it, but trans people can be gender non-conforming as well - they're not an example of how transphobia affects non trans people as well, the harassment GNC cis people face is.

    Normal simply means 'conforming to a standard: usual, typical or expected' ergo if you're born with a vagina and identifying as a woman is normal as the vast majority of people do that. Getting all pissy at being abnormal [which doesnt necessarily imply a negative connotation] is simply pety and frankly rather whiny in this instance
    Err no, the notion that some one is abnormal is intended to imply negative connotations. Trans people are a rather small minority (estimates are generally in the 0.5-1% range) and by sheer numbers cis people are the usual state of affairs, but similarly we don't refer to ginger people (ca 2% of global population) or northern Irish people (ca. 3% of UK population) as abnormal - suggesting someone is abnormal is intended to be degrading.

    Equally why do you all simply stick phobic on the end of any and every word you can lay your hands on? It's really getting a little much now, surely?
    Phobic/Phobia is used in this situation to refer to an extreme aversion to, fear of or hatred of something. So applied to transphobia it's an extreme aversion to, fear of or hatred of trans people. Unless you want to pretend that no-one hates or fears trans people (despite most of the society sub forum on here to the immediate contrary), no it's not getting "too much", because the discrimination exists to be described
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    No, referring to cis people (cis is not a ridiculous adjective, it's the antonym of trans) as real and normal, implying then that trans people are fake or abnormal, is transphobic. Nor did I lie there, you referred to the woman in the story as a real woman, with the obvious implication being that trans women aren't real women...
    Hmm. Inventing a language and then attempting to bully the rest of us to use it under threat of being called transphobic is utterly ridiculous and certainly does not help your cause. I shall continue to call women women and men men, whether they dress up as the opposite sex or not.

    Speaking personally, I am not transphopbic, merely transactivistphobic and bullyphobic.
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Hmm. Inventing a language and then attempting to bully the rest of us to use it under threat of being called transphobic is utterly ridiculous and certainly does not help your cause. I shall continue to call women women and men men, whether they dress up as the opposite sex or not.

    Speaking personally, I am not transphopbic, merely transactivistphobic and bullyphobic.
    Sweet, I invented Latin? Come at me linguistic scholars.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Napp)
    I am perfectly aware of what it means but nevertheless it is still ridiculous. If trans people don't want to be called trannies or what not as they consider it offensive then i'd ask you stop referring to me as "cis", period.
    Normal simply means 'conforming to a standard: usual, typical or expected' ergo if you're born with a vagina and identifying as a woman is normal as the vast majority of people do that. Getting all pissy at being abnormal [which doesnt necessarily imply a negative connotation] is simply pety and frankly rather whiny in this instance. It does little more than validate the opinions of people who say that certain people are looking to get offended and get their knickers in a twist.
    Equally why do you all simply stick phobic on the end of any and every word you can lay your hands on? It's really getting a little much now, surely?
    Maybe he’s Napphobic?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Sweet, I invented Latin? Come at me linguistic scholars.
    Cis, in Latin, means 'on this side' or 'on the near side'. It certainly does not mean 'same' (which is translated by 'idem'). It implies a crossing and can be most famously seen in the names of Cisapline Gaul (this side of the Alps for the Romans) and Transalpine Gaul (the far side of the Alps).

    So, your use of cis, in fact, indicates that a cisperson is a person who has not yet made a transition, not one who is not going to make a transition. hence, should only be used for pre-trans people and not for the rest of us. You merely emphasise that women are women and that men are men and that trans people are different.

    Trying to be clever in your bullying is a trap for the unwary.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Why did the nurse presume she had male parts? Women of that age take HRT for obvious reasons, so this seems bizarre. It seems more like a story from The Onion.
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Cis, in Latin, means 'on this side' or 'on the near side'. It certainly does not mean 'same' (which is translated by 'idem'. It implies a crossing and can be most famously seen in the names of Cisapline Gaul (this side of the Alps for the Romans) and Transalpine Gaul (the far side of the Alps).

    So, your use of cis, in fact, indicates that a cisperson is a person who has not yet made a transition, not one who is not going to make a transition. hence, should only be used for pre-trans people and not for the rest of us. You merely emphasise that women are women and that men are men and that trans people are different.

    Trying to be clever in your bullying is a trap for the unwary.
    What utter nonsense. Cis doesn't mean not yet to transition, it's used in reference to experienced gender vs assigned gender across the binary imposed in law (the binary doesn't really exist, there's a far better case for infinite sexes than 2 since sex is a continuum but that's another discussion) - with trans people their experienced gender is opposite to their assigned one (as in trans-2-butene, where the methyl groups are on opposite sides of the double bond when viewed as a 3D structure) while cis people have their experienced gender the same as their assigned one (as in cis-2-butene, where the methyl groups are on the same side of the double bond when viewed as a 3D structure).
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    What utter nonsense. Cis doesn't mean not yet to transition, it's used in reference to experienced gender vs assigned gender across the binary imposed in law (the binary doesn't really exist, there's a far better case for infinite sexes than 2 since sex is a continuum but that's another discussion) - with trans people their experienced gender is opposite to their assigned one (as in trans-2-butene, where the methyl groups are on opposite sides of the double bond when viewed as a 3D structure) while cis people have their experienced gender the same as their assigned one (as in cis-2-butene, where the methyl groups are on the same side of the double bond when viewed as a 3D structure).
    We all know how it is used. It is used to bully your opposition into submission. That doesn't mean that you have the meanings right - you don't, and this appears (to judge by your wriggling) to be an embarrassing revelation. It means something you don't want it to mean, which, since you and your fellow-travellers won't change your usage, means you are doomed to continue making the same gaffe.
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    The two are not comparable, and any reasonable person would know that
    Please stop presenting your opinion as fact, it isnt.
    . T***** is a slur with a long history,
    And i am taking you reffering to normal people as 'cis' as a slur. You can't complain about it only going one way.
    cis is merely a Latin prefix meaning "on the same side of" (as opposed to trans: "on the opposite side of" and with nothing else behind it. It's a completely necessary adjective - as demonstrated in the post you took objection to -
    Please stop attempting to appear smart by explaining the derivation of the word, we all did Latin and we all know. You are simply coming across as an ass by putting it in text form, especially when you know exactly what i mean.
    GNC cis people are people who don't abide by traditional gender standards for their assigned at birth gender, but identify with it, but trans people can be gender non-conforming as well - they're not an example of how transphobia affects non trans people as well, the harassment GNC cis people face is.
    T***** and what not [no slur intended but since you insist on using the term cis i will use this, for equalities sake] can identify with whatever they damn well please. I could give not a single solitary **** if they identify as male, female or the sun. What I am objecting to is your attempt to ram your quaint ideology down my throat. If you want people to respect your position then you should extend that same curtesy to others and not be a hypocrite.


    Err no, the notion that some one is abnormal is intended to imply negative connotations. Trans people are a rather small minority (estimates are generally in the 0.5-1% range) and by sheer numbers cis people are the usual state of affairs, but similarly we don't refer to ginger people (ca 2% of global population) or northern Irish people (ca. 3% of UK population) as abnormal - suggesting someone is abnormal is intended to be degrading.
    Nill point.
    If you wish to refer to those groups as abnormal you are perfectly welcome to but seeing as we arent discussing them i'd kindly ask you to not make another false equivalence between them. Especially given as being ginger or irish is in no way, shape or form the same as being a transexual.

    Phobic/Phobia is used in this situation to refer to an extreme aversion to, fear of or hatred of something. So applied to transphobia it's an extreme aversion to, fear of or hatred of trans people. Unless you want to pretend that no-one hates or fears trans people (despite most of the society sub forum on here to the immediate contrary), no it's not getting "too much", because the discrimination exists to be described
    Once again why are you attempting to explain common suffixes to me?
    I made no comment on people opinion about this group but given that near enough every adjective appears to have a corresponding "phobia" attached to it now it would seem to one to have thoroughly stripped it of all meaning. Especially when [since you mentioned other users comments] few seem to have expressed any "fear and/or hatred" for transexuals as opposed to not wanting this aberrant ideology thrust upon them. Once again, you are entitled to support that particular view point but you cannot at the same time start whining about an opposing one without making an utter mockery of your starting position. It's one or the other, you can't have both.
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Hmm. Inventing a language and then attempting to bully the rest of us to use it under threat of being called transphobic is utterly ridiculous and certainly does not help your cause. I shall continue to call women women and men men, whether they dress up as the opposite sex or not.

    Speaking personally, I am not transphopbic, merely transactivistphobic and bullyphobic.
    Hear hear!
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Ok, ignoring that "real woman" is a transphobic remark (suggesting that trans women aren't real...), you don't need to be trans to experience the results of transphobia on a day to day basis because discrimination like this affects those who are perceived as being in that group, regardless of whether they are or not - so transphobia also affects GNC cis people as well
    1. "-phobic" suggests fear. Reluctance to call a man a woman based on an understanding of biology and genetics is not transphobia.

    Mmmm, doublethink.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    If it hadn't been for the likes of Stiff Little Fingers and their specious attempts to bully the rest of us the prison staff would not have had the opportunity to mistreat this woman in this way.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    Stiff Little Fingers i love you for every single point youre making hello
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    trans women r women !!!!!!! die mad !!!!!!!!
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by todorokishouto)
    trans women r women !!!!!!!
    Only if you subscribe to this new age sophistry that gender is a choice.
    die mad !!!!!!!!
    eh?
 
 
 
Poll
Were you ever put in isolation at school?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.