Does anyone else like exams?? Watch

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AppleB
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#21
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#21
(Original post by ecolier)
If the thought of med school exams worry you (or your friends), just tell them about these lovely exams that is only a few years away!

Note: med school exams are really designed for you to pass - it is in the schools' / government's best interests that every 1st year med student makes it to an FY1 doctor! But post-grad exams aren't really linked to any budget / training places, and really (in my opinion) just there to protect patients (nothing wrong with that) <- talk about being controversial!
FF1/2 drs have exams whilst doing 13 hr+ shifts??? I though they had none. I've never asked them that's probably eht :lol:
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Tawheed
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#22
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(Original post by AppleB)
FF1/2 drs have exams whilst doing 13 hr+ shifts??? I though they had none. I've never asked them that's probably eht :lol:
And then consider this: If you ask a large number of GPs whether they recommend you go into General Practise, most will tell you 'No'.

So put the working, the exams, and then the bleak prospects together and it surely must be hard for them.
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ecolier
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#23
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(Original post by Tawheed)
Certainly not as much as you, and not directly. Everything you've said is true, i just have had some friends who unfortunately failed their resits and have had five or six years of their life thrown to dust, who would jump at a chance to sit these post-graduate exams just to still 'be in the game' per say.
There was a thread something along the lines of "is it better in med school or working as a doctor" - and I said med school every time.

I have every sympathy to med students failing their resits, but it is still a minority and from the other side (i.e. the side of the Uni) I can tell you we do every thing within our powers to help those in difficulty.

For those who are not in difficulty, there are weeks of study leave, the course co-ordinators do not organise any scheduled teaching for students for a few days before term break so they can go home earlier to be with family. Student support is really easy to come by - in fact any deviation from your average may trigger an automatic support mechanism. You also get to study alongside side hundreds of similarly-minded, (mostly) similar aged students, living in close proximity.

In contrast, for post-grad med exams - support is really really limited (I would say it's about 1/100 from Uni, and I am not exaggerating) with you having to organise everything yourself, including paying, organising time off for the day of the exam let alone study leave (maximum 2 days), and travel to different parts of the country. On top of that the pass rate is really low. There are only a few people you know who are taking that part of the exam. Finally, of course you will have all the stress of working, not a lot of peer-support either.

You could locum as an SHO for life, true, for then it is still "frowned upon" and certainly a lot of people wouldn't like to be seen as an SHO for 10 years.

That's just my opinion - and as I said I have every sympathy for the failed medical students too.

(Original post by AppleB)
FF1/2 drs have exams whilst doing 13 hr+ shifts??? I though they had none. I've never asked them that's probably eht :lol:
Oh yes I remember doing a long day just before an exam myself!!
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AppleB
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#24
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(Original post by ecolier)
There was a thread something along the lines of "is it better in med school or working as a doctor" - and I said med school every time.

I have every sympathy to med students failing their resits, but it is still a minority and from the other side (i.e. the side of the Uni) I can tell you we do every thing within our powers to help those in difficulty.

For those who are not in difficulty, there are weeks of study leave, the course co-ordinators do not organise any scheduled teaching for students for a few days before term break so they can go home earlier to be with family. Student support is really easy to come by - in fact any deviation from your average may trigger an automatic support mechanism. You also get to study alongside side hundreds of similarly-minded, (mostly) similar aged students, living in close proximity.

In contrast, for post-grad med exams - support is really really limited (I would say it's about 1/100 from Uni, and I am not exaggerating) with you having to organise everything yourself, including paying, organising time off for the day of the exam let alone study leave (maximum 2 days), and travel to different parts of the country. On top of that the pass rate is really low. There are only a few people you know who are taking that part of the exam. Finally, of course you will have all the stress of working, not a lot of peer-support either.

You could locum as an SHO for life, true, for then it is still "frowned upon" and certainly a lot of people wouldn't like to be seen as an SHO for 10 years.

That's just my opinion - and as I said I have every sympathy for the failed medical students too.



Oh yes I remember doing a long day just before an exam myself!!
Whaaat? I thought once you qualify med school you start working under supervision of consultant and get signed off at the end to progress .What's the point of having exams whilst you're a working doctor? Does this include SHOs??
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ecolier
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#25
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#25
(Original post by AppleB)
Whaaat? I thought once you qualify med school you start working under supervision of consultant and get signed off at the end to progress .What's the point of having exams whilst you're a working doctor? Does this include SHOs??
Oh I wish it was a simple as that.

Think of it as 2 strands - running parallel with each other:
(1) Rising up the ranks
(2) Passing post-grad exams

To rise up the ranks, it's relatively easy - just make sure you don't make big mistakes, get some workplace-based assessments done (usually get the consultants / registrars to sign you off doing some case discussions, examining patients, doing some procedures, audits, teaching) and that's it -> FY2. Then in FY2 you'll have to apply to become a ST1 / CT1.

Rising up the ranks is pretty much automatic, short of the major competition "choke points": FY2 -> CT1 and CT2 -> ST3 / CT3 -> ST4. Some specialties are super competitive (e.g. ophthalmology, dermatology, public health) and you may not get in during the first try. At these "choke points" you will be thrown back in the world of competition and need to score high in your application and interviews. Part of the application score could include passing parts of exams.

Passing post-grad exams is a compulsory part of passing certain years, e.g. to go into ST3 Medicine as a registrar you must have passed all 3 parts of MRCP. Similar for ST3 Surgery you must have passed both parts of MRCS. It's slightly easier to be a GP, because you have 3 years to pass MRCGP - a 2 part exam. If you don't pass that exam before the year, you'll have to retake that last year (i.e. CT2 Medicine or Surgery). It's a similar problem in registrar years when you do "exit" exams - to become a consultant you must have passed the specialty exams.
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AppleB
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#26
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(Original post by ecolier)
Oh I wish it was a simple as that.

Think of it as 2 strands - running parallel with each other:
(1) Rising up the ranks
(2) Passing post-grad exams

To rise up the ranks, it's relatively easy - just make sure you don't make big mistakes, get some workplace-based assessments done (usually get the consultants / registrars to sign you off doing some case discussions, examining patients, doing some procedures, audits, teaching) and that's it -> FY2. Then in FY2 you'll have to apply to become a ST1 / CT1.

Rising up the ranks is pretty much automatic, short of the major competition "choke points": FY2 -> CT1 and CT2 -> ST3 / CT3 -> ST4. Some specialties are super competitive (e.g. ophthalmology, dermatology, public health) and you may not get in during the first try. At these "choke points" you will be thrown back in the world of competition and need to score high in your application and interviews. Part of the application score could include passing parts of exams.

Passing post-grad exams is a compulsory part of passing certain years, e.g. to go into ST3 Medicine as a registrar you must have passed all 3 parts of MRCP. Similar for ST3 Surgery you must have passed both parts of MRCS. It's slightly easier to be a GP, because you have 3 years to pass MRCGP - a 2 part exam. If you don't pass that exam before the year, you'll have to retake that last year (i.e. CT2 Medicine or Surgery). It's a similar problem in registrar years when you do "exit" exams - to become a consultant you must have passed the specialty exams.
So even as a SHO and reg the Dr has to go back to uni to do exams?
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ecolier
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#27
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#27
(Original post by AppleB)
So even as a SHO and reg the Dr has to go back to uni to do exams?
Oh nooooo :sorry: if I wasn't clear. The exams are hosted by the Royal Colleges, and are held in different places around the country. I have done my Part 2 written MRCP in a rugby stadium in Manchester, but I know they also host it in a hotel in Birmingham city centre (amongst many other places dotted around the country). The MRCP Part 2 clinical (aka PACES) is held at different hospitals throughout the country, there's nothing to do with Unis any more.
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AppleB
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#28
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(Original post by ecolier)
Oh nooooo :sorry: if I wasn't clear. The exams are hosted by the Royal Colleges, and are held in different places around the country. I have done my Part 2 written MRCP in a rugby stadium in Manchester, but I know they also host it in a hotel in Birmingham city centre (amongst many other places dotted around the country). The MRCP Part 2 clinical (aka PACES) is held at different hospitals throughout the country, there's nothing to do with Unis any more.
So from f1 to reg you're travelling around doing exams? I still can't believe this...
What's MRCp?
Practical exams are held in hospitals?
What's the point of doing exams whilst you're a Dr?
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ecolier
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(Original post by AppleB)
So from f1 to reg you're travelling around doing exams? I still can't believe this...
Yep - 3 part exam if you want to be a medical doctor (physician), 2 parts if you want to do surgery. This is only to become a registrar.

What's MRCp?
A diploma, once you passed those 3 parts you are awarded it and you can part MRCP behind your name. e.g. Dr Ecolier MBBS, MRCP

Practical exams are held in hospitals?
Yes. I help invigilate them and I teach on courses too, both are held in hospitals (for patients - because we need real patients).

What's the point of doing exams whilst you're a Dr?
To ensure they are gaining more knowledge, and can progress on to training in the next step. e.g. MRCS -> tests specific surgical based skills and knowledge.
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xoxAngel_Kxox
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I wouldn't say I liked them. I enjoyed revising for them, however on the day I would always be very nervous. However, once I'd settled into my seat and opened the paper (and scanned it to have a look what was coming up) I settled, and found it quite relaxing if I knew what I was doing. It was another story if I didn't.
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Rainfall
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Nope. Only subjects I’m very interested in cause then I know I’ll do well. I prefer assignments cause they’re exciting.
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SoulfulTwist
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#32
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Yes, I used to. I don't think I would anymore.
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AppleB
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#33
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#33
(Original post by ecolier)
Yep - 3 part exam if you want to be a medical doctor (physician), 2 parts if you want to do surgery. This is only to become a registrar.



A diploma, once you passed those 3 parts you are awarded it and you can part MRCP behind your name. e.g. Dr Ecolier MBBS, MRCP



Yes. I help invigilate them and I teach on courses too, both are held in hospitals (for patients - because we need real patients).



To ensure they are gaining more knowledge, and can progress on to training in the next step. e.g. MRCS -> tests specific surgical based skills and knowledge.
After reg you have no more exams?
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ecolier
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(Original post by AppleB)
After reg you have no more exams?
(Original post by ecolier)
...It's a similar problem in registrar years when you do "exit" exams - to become a consultant you must have passed the specialty exams.
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AppleB
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#35
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#35
(Original post by ecolier)
:facepalm: what happens if you fail the exams?
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ecolier
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(Original post by AppleB)
:facepalm: what happens if you fail the exams?
Keep retaking! Failure is not an option at this stage
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_Mia101
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#37
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#37
(Original post by ecolier)
Keep retaking! Failure is not an option at this stage
There is no limit (like the maximum of 6)?
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sknudson
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#38
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As long as I've done more than adequate revision beforehand and can show off on the paper by being ultra-thorough in showing my work. It's more satisfying to know you're going to make the examiner have to do his or her own revision to stay on top of your answers. That or just default you with an A, which is win-win either way.
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ecolier
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(Original post by _Mia101)
There is no limit (like the maximum of 6)?
There is a limit (the limit is imposed by the GMC on all post-grad medical exams), but usually the exams are so few and far between (the MRCP ones are held several times a year, these specialty ones are usually once per year) that the chances are you won't even have 6 chances to take them (exam only held once per year and registrar training is 4-5 years depending on specialty).
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_Mia101
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(Original post by sknudson)
As long as I've done more than adequate revision beforehand and can show off on the paper by being ultra-thorough in showing my work. It's more satisfying to know you're going to make the examiner have to do his or her own revision to stay on top of your answers. That or just default you with an A, which is win-win either way.
Honestly!😂😂

I always say I feel bad for teachers when they are marking my work. I mean, I'm chilling and they have to go and read my work that I have filled with all sorts of information.
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