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PGCE - Useless abroad?

It's only just come to my attention that the PGCE might be a UK thing rather than an international course. Does this mean that we'd have to re-do the whole masters of education if we were to teach abroad?

Troubling... :eek:

Reply 1

Rhi_Rhi

i don't know. I shall investigate this is something that i would like to know actually :smile:

!

Reply 2

Sanity Panda

OP

Looking around...
It'd make sense that someone is able to teach abroad after becoming a teacher in the UK - Passed their NQT Year.

But confirmations would be nice.

Reply 3

Rhi_Rhi

i think its fine so long as you complete your NQT year ?

Reply 4

Rhi_Rhi

oh whoops, i missed your second post, but yea thats what i found also.

Reply 5

brak3n

13

If you look at the back of the jobs section in the TES at the international opportunities there seems to be a trend of wanting prospective employees to have a few years with QTS under your belt before moving abroad to teach. :smile:

You'd probably have a hard time of it if you just did the PGCE year and then instantly wanted to move abroad without gaining QTS here first.

Reply 6

The Boosh

17

what do you mean by masters of education?

Reply 7

Sanity Panda

OP

That was just quoting someone in Germany.

Thinking it over it's probably the 4 Year version of BEd making it MEd instead.

Reply 8

The Boosh

17

the uk pgce is recognised in a few places (which is why some universities have a strong student exchange option - e.g. in australia).

the 4 year teacher training route is being phased out big time in the uk. it used to be called something like B.Ed. (ITT) (Hons) QTS - something like this, a very lengthy title. basically, people on the 4 year courses automatically graduated with qts without having provisional qts (i.e. they didn't need a special nqt year). it was never an undergraduate masters in the uk (and i'm not aware of any masters teacher training courses outside of the uk - but that's not to say that they don't exist). in the future we will probably find that the pgce will be replaced by an MEd, but we won't see an undergraduate masters because, as i say, official 4 year training routes are becoming a rarity now compared to 10 years ago. people often do the BA Education Studies then go on to a PGCE (i.e. the only route that exeter and cambridge offer which is anything close to the old BEd routes).

but yeah, your pgce is recognised in australia, and gets you extra brownie points (such as cash!!) when you apply for more serious tefl posts abroad (such as in korea - you get £thousands more for a masters and a pgce and an undergrad in english - like me!!! :smile:

)

Reply 9

Teao the Cat

17

You technically dont need a PGCE, or anything else, to teach in private schools, so if you plan to go into international schools (which are private) then no, you dont. They do prefer people with some sort of teaching quilification.

Reply 10

Wildstarchild

7

Teao the Cat

You technically dont need a PGCE, or anything else, to teach in private schools, so if you plan to go into international schools (which are private) then no, you dont. They do prefer people with some sort of teaching quilification.

Not all international schools are private the ones in America, Canada and Australia aren't?

Reply 11

sammyrj

15

Wildstarchild

Not all international schools are private the ones in America, Canada and Australia aren't?

I might be misunderstanding your post, but I think she means the English-speaking international schools in the likes of China and Thailand. American, Canadian and Australian schools will be English-speaking anyway, and so without learning another language you'll be able to teach in both private and state schools.

Reply 12

santogold

15

There are international schools that ask for QTS. Most international/private schools ask for a teaching qualification though.
I teach in Germany now and want to go to the UK to do my PGCE. However, I may have to attend courses or seminars to have it recognised in Germany unless I want to work in a private school again.

Reply 13

fish88

You can not teach in an International or British school without a valid teaching qualification but you can teach in local schools abroad like in China/Korea/Japan/Thailand/Eastern Europe with just a BA but in some cases you don't even need a BA if you have the experience.

International schools abroad are now becoming stricter and some would like to see a MA with a teaching qualification. I came back from abroad because I only had the BA Hons and no teaching qualification. I was an experienced teacher but unqualified and so I need to get qualified in order to go back to earn a more realistic salary.

If you want to travel abroad to teach in local schools and to teach English as a foreign language then no PGCE is required but if you would like to teach other subjects then a PGCE is required.

International schools don't require a NQT so alot of people just do their PGCE and leave but if you wanted to come back to the UK you'd need to do the NQT and if you miss 5 years you would have to do the PGCE all over again.... and would you really want to do that?

Reply 14

k1tsun3

12

Sanity Panda

It's only just come to my attention that the PGCE might be a UK thing rather than an international course. Does this mean that we'd have to re-do the whole masters of education if we were to teach abroad?

Troubling... :eek:

The PGCE is only offered in the UK, but there are other programs like it. IN the US, universities are now offering a Masters of Art in Teaching, a 1-2 year masters programs that offers their equivalent of QTS; they also have MEd that take 2.5 years that offer QTS. In the Netherlands, they offer a postgrad course to QTS. It is 2 years if you have only an undergrad degree and 1 year if you have a postgrad degree. Canada has something similar as well.

As for teaching abroad with a PGCE, it would be best to complete your NQT year and a Masters, especially to teach in the International Schools, as well as other provate schools abroad. Many seem to ask for a teaching qualification, a Masters and 2-3 years of experience.

There are some countries, I'd say mostly EU countries, that have reciprocal agreements with the UK that will allow you to teach there. Outside of that, it would depend on the review of our program. Like in the UK, there are other countries that will allowed overseas trained teachers to teach for X years. I know the US offers a teacher exchange. During your time, there would be courses you would have to complete, but it wouldn't necessarily be another degree.

Hope this helps.

Reply 15

oxymoronic

19

Can I just point out that there is no such thing as a "UK PGCE" as people keep calling it... the PGCE is English (and I think Wales and Northern Ireland use it too) but in Scotland, it is called a PGDE and it is very different to the English qualification to reflect the differences in the education system. If a teacher qualified in England wants to come and teach in Scotland, they are essentially put on trial until they've proven their ability, regardless of how much teaching they've done in England, because the education systems are so different.

Reply 16

k1tsun3

12

oxymoronic

Can I just point out that there is no such thing as a "UK PGCE" as people keep calling it... the PGCE is English (and I think Wales and Northern Ireland use it too) but in Scotland, it is called a PGDE and it is very different to the English qualification to reflect the differences in the education system. If a teacher qualified in England wants to come and teach in Scotland, they are essentially put on trial until they've proven their ability, regardless of how much teaching they've done in England, because the education systems are so different.

Yes. I'd say most people are aware of this. Whilst they are different as the education system differs, it's the same idea. Scotland is the only one to offer the PGDE, so it's just easier to use the PGCE. No one means any harm by it.

Yes, if you go outside of the nation you are qualified to teach it, there will be a trial period. That's a given. Though I know England has several reciprocal agreements. Also, another factor will be the subject you teach. For example, a maths and science teacher will have an easier time adjusting than a History or Religion teacher based on location. Even English will be similar, unless your going from lit to ESL. There will be learning curve on the structure, but if you have the knowledge of the subject and the eagerness to learn the system, you'll be grand.

Reply 17

KayleeLand

16

It is valid abroad for private institutions etc i most of the countries I've looked at. Certain ones ask for a few years exp on top too. And in Spain I know I wouldn't have to do anymore training (quals) to get a job in a state school, just do the compulsory national placing exam (and get a decent mark) to get a job for life, which is the same as the Spanish teaching grads.

Reply 18

Piggsil

16

I think it totally depends on the country you want to go and teach in. I know that in Norway, for example, you send some government agency your qualification and they decide if you are allowed to teach there!
I am unsure but I don't think your English QTS would count in France for example, as it is really hard to qualify as a teacher over there. Correct me if I'm wrong.
:smile:

Reply 19

Angelil

19

fish88

You can not teach in an International or British school without a valid teaching qualification

errr, yep, you can. I teach in an international school in France and do not possess any sort of teaching qualification. I earn OK money too (€17k a year net now on 13 hrs a week/52 hrs a month).

As for whether a PGCE is useless abroad - I wouldn't go as far as to say that, as my salary is assessed on my qualifications and it was made clear that I would earn more if I had a teaching qualification. HOWEVER, this is in a private international school. My aunt, on the other hand, has a PGCE on top of her BA and worked as a teacher in state and private schools in the UK for over ten years, as well as working as a headteacher. However, when she came to live in France, she could not find employment as many French state schools refused, rightly or wrongly, to recognise her qualifications. This is a pretty specific story, though, which suggests that the usefulness of a PGCE is down to the individual country (and perhaps even the individual school) involved.

PGCE - Useless abroad?

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