Why are students so short-sighted politically?
I mean seriously, a lot of them just ask for things like scrapping tuition fees and hiking taxes so they can buy more booze when in a couple of years they will have jobs and will have to pay these increased taxes? (or are they so confident that they will be unemployed and won't have to pay back anything..)
Also what's up with universities in the UK turning into those left-wing hornet's nests like the ones you see in the USA? UK universities were always left leaning historical but what I'm asking is why is the toxic identity politics culture making its way over here now, I thought that was a US thing???
Also what's up with universities in the UK turning into those left-wing hornet's nests like the ones you see in the USA? UK universities were always left leaning historical but what I'm asking is why is the toxic identity politics culture making its way over here now, I thought that was a US thing???
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Because we're unhappy with the current system? We're in a fast-paced, quickly changing part of our lives, we can't wait for long-term changes. We aren't settled down in one particular area, with a house, stable jobs and security. We are in one particular area with Uni for 3-4 years and then we will be moving wherever the wind blows us to the promise of a reliable quality of life.
I despise SJW culture in the US and don't agree tuition fees should be abolished. We should have to contribute to our own tertiary education, but £9.25k per year is not value for money by any stretch of the imagination.
I despise SJW culture in the US and don't agree tuition fees should be abolished. We should have to contribute to our own tertiary education, but £9.25k per year is not value for money by any stretch of the imagination.
(edited 5 years ago)
Whilst I can see where you’re coming from I think that’s the first thing that a lot of people “my age” cannot do.
I see in my school there’s a staunch divide between the left and right in our politics lessons, then there are people like me who try their darnedest to disconnect personally and to see things from other viewpoints (which is much harder than it sounds).
As a student, who will be taking on student debt, I am firmly in favour of tuition fees. Universities need to run, it’s higher education for a reason, no where does it stipulate it’s mandatory and thus should be state funded - it’s a choice to go to university,
I do think your issue comes from the youth being more left - wing, which is just how it is to be honest, because is identity politics always a bad thing?
I see in my school there’s a staunch divide between the left and right in our politics lessons, then there are people like me who try their darnedest to disconnect personally and to see things from other viewpoints (which is much harder than it sounds).
As a student, who will be taking on student debt, I am firmly in favour of tuition fees. Universities need to run, it’s higher education for a reason, no where does it stipulate it’s mandatory and thus should be state funded - it’s a choice to go to university,
I do think your issue comes from the youth being more left - wing, which is just how it is to be honest, because is identity politics always a bad thing?
Original post by CTLeafez
Because we're unhappy with the current system? We're in a fast-paced, quickly changing part of our lives, we can't wait for long-term changes. We aren't settled down in one particular area, with a house, stable jobs and security. We are in one particular area with Uni for 3-4 years and then we will be moving wherever the wind blows us to the promise of a reliable quality of life.
Doesn't really answer the question of why tuition fees should be scrapped seeing as you'll have to pay them back later in another way anyway?
So what is basically boils down to is that you want to "rage against the machine"? How original
Original post by e^iπ
Doesn't really answer the question of why tuition fees should be scrapped seeing as you'll have to pay them back later in another way anyway?
So what is basically boils down to is that you want to "rage against the machine"? How original
So what is basically boils down to is that you want to "rage against the machine"? How original
Tuition fees shouldn’t be scrapped, realistically the government would never be able to generate enough funds to fund universities in a better manner than they are being run already. Closer regulation is always a solution.
I’ve never really seen a compelling argument for scrapping tuition fees...
Original post by e^iπ
Doesn't really answer the question of why tuition fees should be scrapped seeing as you'll have to pay them back later in another way anyway?
So what is basically boils down to is that you want to "rage against the machine"? How original
So what is basically boils down to is that you want to "rage against the machine"? How original
As I've said, I don't agree they should be abolished, just reduced to give Unis a reasonable profit margin but also not taking advantage of student's belief that graduate jobs are the only way to have a decent quality of life.
No, it comes down to students wanting to see results to their political demands while they are still relevant and beneficial to them.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by CTLeafez
As I've said, I don't agree they should be abolished, just reduced to give Unis a reasonable profit margin but also not taking advantage of student's belief that graduate jobs are the only way to have a decent quality of life.
No, it comes down to students wanting to see results to their political demands while they are still relevant and beneficial to them.
No, it comes down to students wanting to see results to their political demands while they are still relevant and beneficial to them.
in regards to your last paragraph. why would students want their demands to be met when they know that these demands will only be relevant to them for the next 4-5 years? Surely this is some extreme short-sighted when they know they will end up fighting for tax cuts when that first tax bill comes through the latter box, and will continue doing so for the next 50+ years or how we long they live?
You can easily view it from the other direction - why are older people so self centered politically? You bemoan students voting for higher taxes they'll have to pay, not considering that maybe they're aware of that but consider it justified to aid the less fortunate, compared to an "I'm alright Jack" attitude from older generations
Original post by e^iπ
in regards to your last paragraph. why would students want their demands to be met when they know that these demands will only be relevant to them for the next 4-5 years? Surely this is some extreme short-sighted when they know they will end up fighting for tax cuts when that first tax bill comes through the latter box, and will continue doing so for the next 50+ years or how we long they live?
It could be considered short-sighted relative to the rest of your life, but those first 5 years post-Uni/School are pretty definitive for the rest of your life.
Assuming you start Uni at 18, graduate at 21, you'll be 26 by the end of that time-frame. You're going to be more willing to fight for policies which benefit you rather than Margaret down the road.
Political do change as we age, generally the younger generation is pro-change; they want the world to be more beneficial to them, while the older generations are pro-conservation; they want to maintain what they've achieved previously in life e.g. that hefty paycheck so against increased taxes.
Original post by e^iπ
I mean seriously, a lot of them just ask for things like scrapping tuition fees and hiking taxes so they can buy more booze when in a couple of years they will have jobs and will have to pay these increased taxes? (or are they so confident that they will be unemployed and won't have to pay back anything..)
Also what's up with universities in the UK turning into those left-wing hornet's nests like the ones you see in the USA? UK universities were always left leaning historical but what I'm asking is why is the toxic identity politics culture making its way over here now, I thought that was a US thing???
Also what's up with universities in the UK turning into those left-wing hornet's nests like the ones you see in the USA? UK universities were always left leaning historical but what I'm asking is why is the toxic identity politics culture making its way over here now, I thought that was a US thing???
Because they have no real social inequality to fight about. We've have civil rights and gay rights. Humans are treated equally before the law, there's anti-discrimination laws. So they make up identities and assign oppressed status to them and then they have 'social justice' to fight for.
Original post by ohdearstudying
Whilst I can see where you’re coming from I think that’s the first thing that a lot of people “my age” cannot do.
I see in my school there’s a staunch divide between the left and right in our politics lessons, then there are people like me who try their darnedest to disconnect personally and to see things from other viewpoints (which is much harder than it sounds).
As a student, who will be taking on student debt, I am firmly in favour of tuition fees. Universities need to run, it’s higher education for a reason, no where does it stipulate it’s mandatory and thus should be state funded - it’s a choice to go to university,
I do think your issue comes from the youth being more left - wing, which is just how it is to be honest, because is identity politics always a bad thing?
I see in my school there’s a staunch divide between the left and right in our politics lessons, then there are people like me who try their darnedest to disconnect personally and to see things from other viewpoints (which is much harder than it sounds).
As a student, who will be taking on student debt, I am firmly in favour of tuition fees. Universities need to run, it’s higher education for a reason, no where does it stipulate it’s mandatory and thus should be state funded - it’s a choice to go to university,
I do think your issue comes from the youth being more left - wing, which is just how it is to be honest, because is identity politics always a bad thing?
A country that calls itself first world, or even world leader or some such aspirations, but is unwilling to pay for university education for its citizens, is a joke.
Original post by ohdearstudying
Tuition fees shouldn’t be scrapped, realistically the government would never be able to generate enough funds to fund universities in a better manner than they are being run already. Closer regulation is always a solution.
I’ve never really seen a compelling argument for scrapping tuition fees...
I’ve never really seen a compelling argument for scrapping tuition fees...
It works in plenty of other countries. In Germany in many cases your fee is essentially just a fee for admin costs.
you've made a giant assumption that the tax increase you face later would be worse than carrying $30k in student debt. it might not be. taxes change all the time. what you pay now will not be the same 5, 10, 20 years from now because laws change. the economy changes. your job changes. you can't plan what you'll pay in future taxes because you don't know where you'll be working or who will be running the country. but you will know you if you're worrying about your student loan debt.
UK universities are not turning into American universities. the only place i see 'identity politics' is on TSR tbh. but you can't complain about identity politics without playing identity politics. it's literally impossible.
UK universities are not turning into American universities. the only place i see 'identity politics' is on TSR tbh. but you can't complain about identity politics without playing identity politics. it's literally impossible.
Original post by ohdearstudying
Whilst I can see where you’re coming from I think that’s the first thing that a lot of people “my age” cannot do.
I see in my school there’s a staunch divide between the left and right in our politics lessons, then there are people like me who try their darnedest to disconnect personally and to see things from other viewpoints (which is much harder than it sounds).
As a student, who will be taking on student debt, I am firmly in favour of tuition fees. Universities need to run, it’s higher education for a reason, no where does it stipulate it’s mandatory and thus should be state funded - it’s a choice to go to university,
I do think your issue comes from the youth being more left - wing, which is just how it is to be honest, because is identity politics always a bad thing?
I see in my school there’s a staunch divide between the left and right in our politics lessons, then there are people like me who try their darnedest to disconnect personally and to see things from other viewpoints (which is much harder than it sounds).
As a student, who will be taking on student debt, I am firmly in favour of tuition fees. Universities need to run, it’s higher education for a reason, no where does it stipulate it’s mandatory and thus should be state funded - it’s a choice to go to university,
I do think your issue comes from the youth being more left - wing, which is just how it is to be honest, because is identity politics always a bad thing?
Further education also changes fees to over 19 year olds.
Original post by yudothis
Because they have no real social inequality to fight about. We've have civil rights and gay rights. Humans are treated equally before the law, there's anti-discrimination laws. So they make up identities and assign oppressed status to them and then they have 'social justice' to fight for.
There still real social inequality there are anti-discrimination laws but disabled and people with mental health problems are still treated as third class citizens.
Original post by looloo2134
There still real social inequality there are anti-discrimination laws but disabled and people with mental health problems are still treated as third class citizens.
When no they are not, the equality act protects disabled people and those with mental health.
people with mental health are sectioned for the sole reason that they can't do any harm to themselves or others, not because they are treated like third class citizens.
most buildings nowadays have accessibility ramps and lot for businesses have changed many things to cater to disabled people.
If these students want to invest new "inequalities" then they are just wasting their own time
Original post by e^iπ
When no they are not, the equality act protects disabled people and those with mental health.
people with mental health are sectioned for the sole reason that they can't do any harm to themselves or others, not because they are treated like third class citizens.
most buildings nowadays have accessibility ramps and lot for businesses have changed many things to cater to disabled people.
If these students want to invest new "inequalities" then they are just wasting their own time
people with mental health are sectioned for the sole reason that they can't do any harm to themselves or others, not because they are treated like third class citizens.
most buildings nowadays have accessibility ramps and lot for businesses have changed many things to cater to disabled people.
If these students want to invest new "inequalities" then they are just wasting their own time
Ever tried traveling on public transport in a wheelchair most station are unaccessable. Disabled children are not given the same access to education as able body children. Access to benefit tests that make disabled people feel like frauds. More likely to be unemployed that an able body person with same degree. It better than 50 years ago put there a long why to go.
The equality act help but there a long why to go.
If students are short-sighted politically, they must have learnt from 17.4 million people who voted for the act of economic self-harm in June 2016.
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