The Student Room Group

How should a second referendum present its options?

The problem with a 3 way vote of Deal , No Deal , Remain is that it fractures the Leave vote and if nothing is done about it, Remain might be in first place with only 34% of the vote. Similarly any "winner" of that would rob the other 66% of a voice and is illegitimate.

So there is talk of a second preference system. Where you vote for first preference, then a second. This however is an absolute stitch up because what Theresa May has done is deliberate negotiated a deal that is worse than both Remain and Leave. It is actually far worse for No deal voter (and remainers) because they are forced to express an alternative preference when they don't have any, because the deal is as bad or worse than remain. and for the remainers, any second preference means that they think they would be worse off.

I think the best way to run a second referendum would be to ask two questions.

The first question asks to see if at least 50% of voters would accept the deal on offer. If there is majority consensus , then the deal is passed and we have "Brexit".

The second question asks if the deal on offer is rejected, would your preference be Leave (w/o deal) or Remain.

I think that is the fairest way to frame a second referendum. What about your thoughts?
(edited 5 years ago)

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Same as the last one, no need to hide the fudge.
Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz
Same as the last one, no need to hide the fudge.


So you would go for the Tony Blair option of Brexit good hard and proper vs Remain?

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/tony-blair-on-good-morning-britain-with-piers-morgan-1-5803459

tbh, it's just about the only good idea he's had since 1997.
the difference is. my version forces everyone to express a secondary preference from the point of the view of "May's Deal". Rather than their own first preferences of either Leave or Remain.

That would most respect the first referendum also. we voted to leave, we tried to negotiate a deal. this is the deal. what now?
Reply 4
Pretty pointless exercise really as May has effectively shown her cards. We need a new player with a new attitude that the EU will take seriously and has no hidden agenda. Difficult ask I know but surely there is someone out there who can take on the EU bullies.
sorry, could you explain this bit to me?
Original post by nonotyoutoo
So you would go for the Tony Blair option of Brexit good hard and proper vs Remain?

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/tony-blair-on-good-morning-britain-with-piers-morgan-1-5803459

tbh, it's just about the only good idea he's had since 1997.

I'd make it exactly the same as the 2016 referendum, with the additional caption at the top "We didn't like your last vote so we're making you vote again".
Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz
I'd make it exactly the same as the 2016 referendum, with the additional caption at the top "We didn't like your last vote so we're making you vote again".


the problem with that version is that it doesn't get rid of the remoaning of "people voted to leave, but not how the leave should take place or under what deal".

obviously we have a deal now. and it's a ****ing pile of dog poo.

any second referendum should make it clear there is support for no deal proper brexit so the traitorous politicians have nothing to hide behind.
Content and not content works for me.

MPs can work out what to do from there.
Original post by Notoriety
Content and not content works for me.

MPs can work out what to do from there.


rubbish. the MPs do not adequately represent the will of das volk. if it ever did, we would not have had a first referedum, and we never would have invoked article 50. most mps are remainers and live in a elite bubble.
(edited 5 years ago)
that's a feature, not a bug.

only 1 preference w/regards to deal as the default to be voted on.

everyone gets their say on the deal in the 1st question. if more than 50% tick the yes box, all answers for 2nd one is disregarded.

i'm not a political scientist, or a psephologist, but my version is less a preferential system and more 2 binary referendums in one. it either makes the "condorcet" winner the default, or eliminate it completely. (no compromises)

I also mean that everyone would answer both Q1 and Q2. So everyone's first preference is preserved and some people's second (everyone who thinks deal as their first choice). no thirds.

--

what I want is an unambigous winner between Remain and Leave once and for all. Winner takes all. Losers agitate for the next 25 years. This also settles the best out of three argument.
(edited 5 years ago)
I want my chance to vote for no deal. because the mps will not give the opportunity, look at the dominic grieves annoucement.
my 2 question version or the standard 3 way 3 ranked preferences version?
isn't it very clear now that there won't be a better deal?

I know Jeremy Corbyn wrote a whole bloody article on it in the Guardian today but that's wishful nonsense.
Original post by nonotyoutoo
rubbish. the MPs do not adequately represent the will of das volk. if it ever did, we would not have had a first referedum, and we never would have invoked article 50. most mps are remainers and live in a elite bubble.

So you wanna do away with the current political system. Fine.

But presuming we keep the current political system, which is a useful premise from which to base my response to the OP, then the broadness and plurality of the issue needs to be worked out over slow and considered discussion. A one-off referendum is simply not expressive enough to inform the Government on how to act on specific and technical points.
Original post by Notoriety
So you wanna do away with the current political system. Fine.

But presuming we keep the current political system, which is a useful premise from which to base my response to the OP, then the broadness and plurality of the issue needs to be worked out over slow and considered discussion. A one-off referendum is simply not expressive enough to inform the Government on how to act on specific and technical points.


well no, which is why now even I who voted Leave the first time around want a second referendum. To kill of this bloody leave in name only deal.

we should incorporate more referendums into our political system. every unpopular topic that the politicians don't want to discuss should be left to the public. brexit. legalisation. capital punishment etc.

make it closer to the old athenian system.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by nonotyoutoo
well no, which is why now even I who voted Leave the first time around want a second referendum. To kill of this bloody leave in name only deal.

Fascinating, but I am not here to talk about what you did 2 years ago nor what you had for breakfast.
article 50 wouldnt' have passed without the first referendum

a second one making no deal clear makes mps not voting for it lose complete legitimacy.
That version you've just done is equivalent to

Yes
Hard Brexit.

if less than 50% vote Yes on the first question.
it's because of a remainer conspiracy to deliberate to fail to plan. there should be a criminal investigation into treason.

what would need to happen for possibly a new governement to taable in a single motion to withdraw article 50, then resubmit it the next calendar day. so the country would have the 2 years of planning it should have always had.

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