dingbat93
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Hello!

I was just wondering if anyone is doing the PE EBacc that was introduced this year (Sept 2018) for the first time and what your thoughts are on it so far? It's where you train and qualify in PE and are only accessed in PE, but are also given training on how to teach a subject (deemed important to schools) on your training and deliver lesson, but you are not assessed on these lesson.

When I applied a few weeks ago, one of my providers had already filled their places but do to me having a B in Maths in A Level I can offer a second subject and they could offer me an interview for a PE EBacc with Maths. Now this is something that interested me as I really like maths and I also know this is a subject in demand. However I decided to accept my offer from a SCITT with just straight PE.

While speaking with them at the interview they asked if I had any other interviews, and I said yes, for PE EBacc with Maths. They then suggested if that's something I could add on with their provider too.

So now my question is this, is it worthwhile me doing the PE EBacc with this provider or just sticking with the straight PE. I'm wondering if I did the EBacc would it make me much more employable as an NQT or will it get abused by schools and I'll end up teaching more maths than anticipated. I want to be a PE teacher but also wouldn't mind teaching a class or two at maths.

What are your thoughts? Would an EBacc put me above another person without?
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Mr M
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(Original post by dingbat93)
Hello!

I was just wondering if anyone is doing the PE EBacc that was introduced this year (Sept 2018) for the first time and what your thoughts are on it so far? It's where you train and qualify in PE and are only accessed in PE, but are also given training on how to teach a subject (deemed important to schools) on your training and deliver lesson, but you are not assessed on these lesson.

When I applied a few weeks ago, one of my providers had already filled their places but do to me having a B in Maths in A Level I can offer a second subject and they could offer me an interview for a PE EBacc with Maths. Now this is something that interested me as I really like maths and I also know this is a subject in demand. However I decided to accept my offer from a SCITT with just straight PE.

While speaking with them at the interview they asked if I had any other interviews, and I said yes, for PE EBacc with Maths. They then suggested if that's something I could add on with their provider too.

So now my question is this, is it worthwhile me doing the PE EBacc with this provider or just sticking with the straight PE. I'm wondering if I did the EBacc would it make me much more employable as an NQT or will it get abused by schools and I'll end up teaching more maths than anticipated. I want to be a PE teacher but also wouldn't mind teaching a class or two at maths.

What are your thoughts? Would an EBacc put me above another person without?
You'd end up with 100% maths and 0% PE almost inevitably. You would get a job though. That's not guaranteed with PE alone.
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dingbat93
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(Original post by Mr M)
You'd end up with 100% maths and 0% PE almost inevitably. You would get a job though. That's not guaranteed with PE alone.
That's what I'm afraid of, I'd only want to teach a class or two. My friend who qualified a couple of years ago in only PE teaches a couple of classes Science to Yr 7 and 8 but he only qualified in PE. Surely if I was just to mention I'm keen on Maths in job apps and in interviews that would help? It's just my mum is super pushing for the EBacc thing, but seeing as it's so new I'm still skeptical.

Any one else have any thoughts? Or doing EBacc this year?
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SarcAndSpark
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(Original post by dingbat93)
That's what I'm afraid of, I'd only want to teach a class or two. My friend who qualified a couple of years ago in only PE teaches a couple of classes Science to Yr 7 and 8 but he only qualified in PE. Surely if I was just to mention I'm keen on Maths in job apps and in interviews that would help? It's just my mum is super pushing for the EBacc thing, but seeing as it's so new I'm still skeptical.

Any one else have any thoughts? Or doing EBacc this year?
If you qualify, you can teach any subject. As a PE teacher, offering Maths would probably help you find a job. Either way, if you start teaching maths, I imagine you'd get pushed towards that taking up more and more of your timetable at the moment!

I think it does depend if you'd be willing to take a job teaching a lot of maths initially over not necessarily finding a job straight away after your PGCE.

However, I'd also consider the workload on the Ebacc course- even if you're not assessed on your maths lessons, they're still going to be extra planning/resource finding for you, and you may get less support within the department if you're not formally attached. I'm a science trainee, and I found planning for my non-specialist sciences a lot more work this placement- I imagine planning for maths when you're mostly doing PE would be even worse.

At interview, I'd ask lots of questions about the support and training you would get for the Ebacc section and how it would work in terms of support in schools.
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dingbat93
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(Original post by SarcAndSpark)
If you qualify, you can teach any subject. As a PE teacher, offering Maths would probably help you find a job. Either way, if you start teaching maths, I imagine you'd get pushed towards that taking up more and more of your timetable at the moment!

I think it does depend if you'd be willing to take a job teaching a lot of maths initially over not necessarily finding a job straight away after your PGCE.

However, I'd also consider the workload on the Ebacc course- even if you're not assessed on your maths lessons, they're still going to be extra planning/resource finding for you, and you may get less support within the department if you're not formally attached. I'm a science trainee, and I found planning for my non-specialist sciences a lot more work this placement- I imagine planning for maths when you're mostly doing PE would be even worse.

At interview, I'd ask lots of questions about the support and training you would get for the Ebacc section and how it would work in terms of support in schools.
Thanks for the reply! Yeah, once you’re qualified you can teach anything which is great. It’s my parents that are really pushing. I’ve already interviewed and accepted the just PE PGCE with this training provider, but they said if the PE with EBacc maths interests me then i could do that instead of just PE with them. So that’s why I am pondering what to do. I have emailed them asking for them to give me a bit more detail on it.
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SarcAndSpark
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(Original post by dingbat93)
Thanks for the reply! Yeah, once you’re qualified you can teach anything which is great. It’s my parents that are really pushing. I’ve already interviewed and accepted the just PE PGCE with this training provider, but they said if the PE with EBacc maths interests me then i could do that instead of just PE with them. So that’s why I am pondering what to do. I have emailed them asking for them to give me a bit more detail on it.
If it helps, here are some specific questions I would want answers to before making a decision:

-How would the uni support you in developing your teaching of the non-PE subject?
-How would your time in school be split?
-What support would you get in developing your maths teaching in school? Would you get a subject mentor for maths, or someone specifically assigned to help you?
-How would the uni/school take into account your time spent teaching maths when assessing you? (as you'd teach less PE, I would imagine you'd develop PE specific teaching skills more slowly, which could be a problem).
-Have they confirmed placement schools happy to support this new course?

As the course is brand new, I would want loads of information on how it would be run and how they would overcome any potential problems.

As a current PGCE student, the big problems I see are:

-Having no-one assigned to support you in maths. Most PE teachers won't be able to give you the same support on planning a maths lesson as a maths teacher, and as you'd be mostly based in the PE department, you'd miss out on the informal support you often get when you're based in a department. Without a named supporting teacher in maths, I'd be very reluctant to sign up.

-Schools not being able to offer this kind of placement, so you being promised one thing and actually getting another. Teacher shortages (which are a problem in maths) can cause last minute problems in placements, too.

-You being held to the same standard at assessment as a full time PE trainee, when you are working to develop two sets of skills. Long term, you'd be a more well rounded teacher. Short term, you may struggle in both.

There are also lots of small potential problems that could happen in school that might affect your quality of life as a trainee (e.g. time table clashes, meeting clashes, feeling out of the loop and so on).

I just think the PGCE year is hard enough without raising loads more potential issues. I know someone has to be first, but I'd personally prefer to be in the second or third cohort going through. Also, if the uni can't answer these questions, that's a good reason to give your mum/dad about why you don't think it's a good idea!
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dingbat93
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(Original post by SarcAndSpark)
If it helps, here are some specific questions I would want answers to before making a decision:

-How would the uni support you in developing your teaching of the non-PE subject?
-How would your time in school be split?
-What support would you get in developing your maths teaching in school? Would you get a subject mentor for maths, or someone specifically assigned to help you?
-How would the uni/school take into account your time spent teaching maths when assessing you? (as you'd teach less PE, I would imagine you'd develop PE specific teaching skills more slowly, which could be a problem).
-Have they confirmed placement schools happy to support this new course?

As the course is brand new, I would want loads of information on how it would be run and how they would overcome any potential problems.

As a current PGCE student, the big problems I see are:

-Having no-one assigned to support you in maths. Most PE teachers won't be able to give you the same support on planning a maths lesson as a maths teacher, and as you'd be mostly based in the PE department, you'd miss out on the informal support you often get when you're based in a department. Without a named supporting teacher in maths, I'd be very reluctant to sign up.

-Schools not being able to offer this kind of placement, so you being promised one thing and actually getting another. Teacher shortages (which are a problem in maths) can cause last minute problems in placements, too.

-You being held to the same standard at assessment as a full time PE trainee, when you are working to develop two sets of skills. Long term, you'd be a more well rounded teacher. Short term, you may struggle in both.

There are also lots of small potential problems that could happen in school that might affect your quality of life as a trainee (e.g. time table clashes, meeting clashes, feeling out of the loop and so on).

I just think the PGCE year is hard enough without raising loads more potential issues. I know someone has to be first, but I'd personally prefer to be in the second or third cohort going through. Also, if the uni can't answer these questions, that's a good reason to give your mum/dad about why you don't think it's a good idea!
Thanks so much for such a detailed response. This has really helped me understand a few things.

First of all, this is a SCITT, so has nothing to do with uni. You spend 4 days teaching a week and the other day in the SCITT training centre with all the other people on the course that year, so that's with everyone (all subjects).

By the time I start my PGCE in Sept 2019 I will have spent 2 years working full time in a school in the PE dept and as a sports coach, so I will have a lot of experience compared to others coming straight from uni going onto PGCE courses. I will definitely need support in Maths more.

I am keen to do it as I know it will make me more employable and a better rounded teather long term (as you said), and I will be the third year of the EBacc, as I was told it was actually introduced Sept 2017, but obviously you can still understand my concerns. The SCITT centre is committed to finding a good school who will support both, as they have had others do it with them already. The split in timetable is 75% / 25% and you are also only assessed in PE.
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SarcAndSpark
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(Original post by dingbat93)
Thanks so much for such a detailed response. This has really helped me understand a few things.

First of all, this is a SCITT, so has nothing to do with uni. You spend 4 days teaching a week and the other day in the SCITT training centre with all the other people on the course that year, so that's with everyone (all subjects).

By the time I start my PGCE in Sept 2019 I will have spent 2 years working full time in a school in the PE dept and as a sports coach, so I will have a lot of experience compared to others coming straight from uni going onto PGCE courses. I will definitely need support in Maths more.

I am keen to do it as I know it will make me more employable and a better rounded teather long term (as you said), and I will be the third year of the EBacc, as I was told it was actually introduced Sept 2017, but obviously you can still understand my concerns. The SCITT centre is committed to finding a good school who will support both, as they have had others do it with them already. The split in timetable is 75% / 25% and you are also only assessed in PE.
Ah sorry, as you said PGCE in the title I assumed it was uni led.

I'd be a bit concerned if you're getting no training/support specialist to maths. The teaching strategies and skills will obviously be hugely different to PE, so personally I'd want a bit of guidance on this from somewhere (I don't think observation alone is enough to pick up everything).

It sounds like you are ahead of the game in PE, but I'd still want some guarantees re assessment and workload.

As it's a SCITT, I'd also be asking detailed questions about how they would manage your timetable to avoid clashes and let you have a meaningful amount of time with groups in both subjects and teaching across all key stages. 25% in maths sounds tricky as you may end up with odd lessons with individual classes which can be hard to manage.

I'd also want to know how it might affect other oppourtunities e.g. chance to teach KS5.

Even on a SCITT you have a short placement in another school, so I'd also want some assurances that they were on board!

I do think it sounds like a really good concept, but personally I'd just want to know how it would work in detail (but I am also a bit of a control freak!).
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