Ten tube drivers on £100k with most on £60-70k Watch

ecolier
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...lots-qmkc52whn

What Tube drivers take away each year

Highest paid driver - £103,374.
Nine others - more than £100,000.
Around 30 - more than £80,000.
Around 900 (mainly part-timers) - Less than £60,000.
Most drivers (more than 3,000) - Between £60,000 and £70,000.

Source: TfL freedom of information request.

Edited to add: They also get a free annual travel pass, which are worth £3,548 and cover zones 1-9, eight and a half weeks of paid holiday and full pensions at 60. Those retiring at 50 get a reduced pension.

What do you think? Worth every penny or waste of taxpayer's money?

Edited 2 to add https://www.london.gov.uk/press-rele...00-bus-drivers

Today’s announcement follows on from the Mayor working with the bus companies and unions to secure a new starter minimum wage of £23,000 for drivers working across all of London’s bus companies.
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XxxvatxxX
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(Original post by ecolier)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...lots-qmkc52whn

What Tube drivers take away each year

Highest paid driver - £103,374.
Nine others - more than £100,000.
Around 30 - more than £80,000.
Around 900 (mainly part-timers) - Less than £60,000.
Most drivers (more than 3,000) - Between £60,000 and £70,000.

Source: TfL freedom of information request.

What do you think? Worth every penny or waste of taxpayer's money?
100k?! Wow haha, is that JUST from driving alone or is that taking into account other (perhaps managerial) roles they may have too?
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ANM775
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how do I become a tube driver? lol
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ecolier
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(Original post by XxxvatxxX)
100k?! Wow haha, is that JUST from driving alone or is that taking into account other (perhaps managerial) roles they may have too?
It's including overtime and bonusses. I don't know about others but I can tell you a lot of junior doctors don't earn that much and that's after overtime!

(Can't speak for consultants, but their base pay start from £76.761 and that's after years of training and exams to become a medical / surgical consultant)
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adam277
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How is it a waste of tax payers money?

TFL MAIN INCOME 2018
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-t...-we-are-funded


I wouldn't want to do it.

I currently earn 40k a year as a HGV driver and I could easily earn a extra 20k a year more but I don't want to do nights out.
I think the highest paid HGV drivers are on like 80k+ a year.

That being said I hate my job. It's daily driving in central London during some of the busiest times. So I'm looking to get out of it and go back to college. I suspect if I was a tube driver the monotony alone would drive me nuts.
Crane driver is another extremely well paying job some can easily take home £70k+ a year. But you do earn it.

I think it's not right though to compare a doctors wage with someone like a driver.
Lets say their wages are the same what would you rather do? Job satisfaction should be the main motivator and I think a lot of people would struggle to find that as a tube driver. Well unless you're one of those weirdos that collect toy trains. (Sheldon)
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ecolier
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(Original post by adam277)
How is it a waste of tax payers money?
Not saying that at all. I am asking for other people's opinions.

...Job satisfaction should be the main motivator...
You say that, how many people are truly happy with their job? Doctors / healthcare professionals may be, but what about people sweeping the streets? People repairing motorway at night? The police? A lot / most people are not happy with their job and they feel that they don't get paid enough.

Finally, I personally wouldn't mind being a tube driver. It's probably 10x better than being a bus / taxi driver in London (the traffic, oh the horrible traffic), and the only "hazard" to speak of is jumpers - on some lines there are platform screen doors so it's not really a problem. And driving around London, you aren't really free of people running into the road anyway.
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Notoriety
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I am not sure why they're paid so much. I read before because the job is boring, stressful and you see people jump under your wheels (average once every 10 years); but this is a bit vague. Until we have a detailed breakdown of why, we're gonna be condemning something we don't even understand.
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DSilva
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TFL has recently announced it's freezing fares for a year. It provides a very good service and is great value for money too. I'm not opposed to their workers being rewarded and paid well.
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StriderHort
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(Original post by ecolier)
Not saying that at all. I am asking for other people's opinions.

You say that, how many people are truly happy with their job? Doctors / healthcare professionals may be, but what about people sweeping the streets? People repairing motorway at night? The police? A lot / most people are not happy with their job and they feel that they don't get paid enough.

Finally, I personally wouldn't mind being a tube driver. It's probably 10x better than being a bus / taxi driver in London (the traffic, oh the horrible traffic), and the only "hazard" to speak of is jumpers - on some lines there are platform screen doors so it's not really a problem. And driving around London, you aren't really free of people running into the road anyway.
I dunno, I think tube driver stands some way apart in terms of sheer repetitive isolated monotony....at least a bus or taxi driver has some variety and customer interaction, I think you'd need to offer me an unreasonable sounding amount of money to do it as well. It doesn't sound like the sort of role with much chance of progression or development either. May well be some peoples cup of tea, but it sounds like my nightmare job, see also CCTV operator.
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ecolier
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(Original post by Notoriety)
I am not sure why they're paid so much. I read before because the job is boring, stressful and you see people jump under your wheels (average once every 10 years); but this is a bit vague. Until we have a detailed breakdown of why, we're gonna be condemning something we don't even understand.
Agreed. What I don't understand though is why the massive difference in pay between tube and bus drivers.

Aslef said: 'The last pay agreement was concluded with Boris Johnson when he was the Conservative Mayor of London. 'He felt, TfL felt, and we felt that pay deal accurately reflected the training, professionalism, and expertise of our members in delivering a professional public service for hundreds of thousands of passengers travelling on the Underground in the capital every day.'

(Original post by StriderHort)
I dunno, I think tube driver stands some way apart in terms of sheer repetitive isolated monotony....at least a bus or taxi driver has some variety and customer interaction, I think you'd need to offer me an unreasonable sounding amount of money to do it as well, see also bin collection & sorting staff, It doesn't sound like the sort of role with much chance of progression or development either. May well be some peoples cup of tea, but it sounds like my nightmare job, see also CCTV operator.
Agreed. But the point is that there are so many jobs which are equally isolated / risky / enclosed / repetitive (delete as appropriate) out there, why are tube drivers different?

(Original post by DSilva)
TFL has recently announced it's freezing fares for a year. It provides a very good service and is great value for money too. I'm not opposed to their workers being rewarded and paid well.
I also agree that TfL services are excellent, but read the difference between bus and tube drivers. I personally think that bus drivers should be paid more than tube drivers. But that's my personal opinion.
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StriderHort
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(Original post by ecolier)
Agreed. But the point is that there are so many jobs which are equally isolated / risky / enclosed / repetitive (delete as appropriate) out there, why are tube drivers different?
As said, I feel it stands apart as an extreme, I've done plenty of crap repetitive/dangerous jobs but this one seriously is my idea of hell. I think i'd honestly rather sit outside the station, piss myself then beg for change.

Bin workers have always stood out to me as well, i've worked alongside them in council roles and been cross trained for it and christ it's horrible, literally everything is slimey and putrid, offices, vehicies and facilities included, you can't eat during the day, regular pelters from the public, massively dangerous and you're generally forced to wear the cheapest most uncomfortable protective gear that money can buy....i'm ok with these people being paid a rate higher than the total of their time and labour, simply because it;s such a gross life affecting job and I certainly don't want to do it. I'll happily do plenty SIMILAR jobs....but not that one and I feel much the same about tube driver. Others will obv have different values.
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ecolier
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(Original post by StriderHort)
...Bin workers have always stood out to me as well, i've worked alongside them in council roles and been cross trained for it and christ it's horrible, literally everything is slimey and putrid, offices, vehicies and facilities included, you can't eat during the day, regular pelters from the public, massively dangerous and you're generally forced to wear the cheapest most uncomfortable protective gear that money can buy....i'm ok with these people being paid a rate higher than the total of their time and labour, simply because it;s such a gross life affecting job and I certainly don't want to do it. I'll happily do plenty SIMILAR jobs....but not that one and I feel much the same about tube driver. Others will obv have different values.
I agree that binman would be a really, really bad job; especially because their wages start at £16,215 / year and there is absolutely no chance of them reaching >£100,000 per year https://www.payscale.com/research/UK...llector/Salary

I also agree that while a lot of people would find working in the dark, in unsocial hours, away from people, doing a repetitive job repulsive; a large proportion of those people would be swayed by a £60,000 starting salary with a ceiling of over £100,000.
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StriderHort
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A wee example I can think of that I've ran into, I work in horticulture so do plenty of basic mowing/planting/weeding ect, happily do that all day for long and chrge £10-15 an hour odd...but that rate will escalate quickly depending on whether i'm asked to do something I really don't want to do. Chainsaw work for one I charge a fortune for due to the danger and background costs, and some of the more physical tasks hit £50 an hour. If I was able to take that rate all day every day I'd be close to that same £100'000, but i'd probably hate my job and life and likely run into serious health issues.
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adam277
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I know a bin man in his 50s that loves it.
There is room to progress in the council.


Also in my area at least. It's job and knock. So you may only do 4-5 hours but get paid for the full 8.
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ecolier
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(Original post by StriderHort)
... If I was able to take that rate all day every day I'd be close to that same £100'000, but i'd probably hate my job and life and likely run into serious health issues.
Sure, but that's the point. You couldn't do it your whole life. Whereas these drivers can and will be allowed to retire with full pension at 60 years of age - it is also obvious that they liked their job, or they wouldn't have been doing it for years.

(Original post by adam277)
I know a bin man in his 50s that loves it.
There is room to progress in the council.

Also in my area at least. It's job and knock. So you may only do 4-5 hours but get paid for the full 8.
Good for him, but it's still not going to be near £100,000 though is it?
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JohanGRK
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It's called unionisation, folks

Welcome to the laws of supply and demand
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VMD100
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(Original post by ecolier)
It's including overtime and bonusses. I don't know about others but I can tell you a lot of junior doctors don't earn that much and that's after overtime!

(Can't speak for consultants, but their base pay start from £76.761 and that's after years of training and exams to become a medical / surgical consultant)
Most junior doctors shouldn't be earning that much either! They are fresh grads with very limited experience.

I can assure you that you will not find consultants earning below £60,000 though
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That'sGreat
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Ridiculous. It's because they promote solely form the inside, if it was opened up we would see a lot more joining and they would earn what sitting on their bum is worth.
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(Original post by adam277)
I know a bin man in his 50s that loves it.
There is room to progress in the council.


Also in my area at least. It's job and knock. So you may only do 4-5 hours but get paid for the full 8.
As said, some people just won't see it the same way and will be happy to take that job on, I agree councils often use it as basically an induction for better jobs, mine does anyway, pretty much everyone has to do their stintstreet sweeper/litter picker at SOME point

(Original post by ecolier)
I agree that binman would be a really, really bad job; especially because their wages start at £16,215 / year and there is absolutely no chance of them reaching >£100,000 per year https://www.payscale.com/research/UK...llector/Salary

I also agree that while a lot of people would find working in the dark, in unsocial hours, away from people, doing a repetitive job repulsive; a large proportion of those people would be swayed by a £60,000 starting salary with a ceiling of over £100,000.
If i remember right, a lot of councils USED to pay their clensing staff far better, lots of double time, essentially they got close to a graduate salary if they stuck it out and it was exactly because of how manky a job it was. Over the last decade in my council almost all these jobs are reduced to a stock £14-16k odd bulked out with seasonal min wage temps. :/
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The unions could only secure that package for their drivers because they never attract anyone to join them
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