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Are transsexuals gay and shemales?
I'm opening this thread as a response to a thread in the H&R section in which the majority opinion seemed to express the view that...
1) all transsexuals are, at the same time, automatically homosexuals;
2) all transsexuals are "shemales".
I would like you to debate the reasoning behind those two statements; however, I'd be grateful if, before you answer, you explore a bit the topic by looking at the following videos and link - and, if possible, let me know your opinion about them as well.
7 minutes news on transgender children
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3M9xljxVe8
8 minutes speech on the issue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fjSzE21ARM
Article about transsexual teenagers on a Health website
http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/teenlife/rel_transsexualteens.html
What I have understood in the past few days is that...
A) transsexuals can be both heterosexual and homosexual;
B) "shemale" is a term for transsexuals or transvestites in the porn or escort industry... and you don't get transsexuals only in the porn or escort industry;
C) children as young as 3 are diagnosed with transgenderism/transsexuality;
D) teenagers as young as 14 years old undergo therapy and surgery.
Please see this link as well for more information on C and D
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS-IIa.html
((What surprised me a bit is that also a child actor Lord of the Rings is a transsexual kid.
))
What I'm saying is that I'd find it unreasonable that they allow kids to undergo therapy and surgery if it's all "just in the mind". So there must be another reason...
I hope that this discussion will lead to a better exchange of information and help present a clearer image on the issue and on the facts to everyone.
1) all transsexuals are, at the same time, automatically homosexuals;
2) all transsexuals are "shemales".
I would like you to debate the reasoning behind those two statements; however, I'd be grateful if, before you answer, you explore a bit the topic by looking at the following videos and link - and, if possible, let me know your opinion about them as well.
7 minutes news on transgender children
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3M9xljxVe8
8 minutes speech on the issue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fjSzE21ARM
Article about transsexual teenagers on a Health website
http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/teenlife/rel_transsexualteens.html
What I have understood in the past few days is that...
A) transsexuals can be both heterosexual and homosexual;
B) "shemale" is a term for transsexuals or transvestites in the porn or escort industry... and you don't get transsexuals only in the porn or escort industry;
C) children as young as 3 are diagnosed with transgenderism/transsexuality;
D) teenagers as young as 14 years old undergo therapy and surgery.
Please see this link as well for more information on C and D
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS-IIa.html
((What surprised me a bit is that also a child actor Lord of the Rings is a transsexual kid.
))What I'm saying is that I'd find it unreasonable that they allow kids to undergo therapy and surgery if it's all "just in the mind". So there must be another reason...
I hope that this discussion will lead to a better exchange of information and help present a clearer image on the issue and on the facts to everyone.
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I always wondered what the difference between transexual and shemale was, thanks.
Not all transexuals are homosexual, but it depends if you are judging this based on their born sex or their new sex I guess.
E.g. A child, born a girl has a sexchange to become a guy. If they like guys, then because they are now a guy are they gay? or are they straight because they were originally a girl? Or if they liked girls, are they a lesbian because they were born a girl and like girls, or are they straight because they now are a straight guy? Confusing
Not all transexuals are homosexual, but it depends if you are judging this based on their born sex or their new sex I guess.
E.g. A child, born a girl has a sexchange to become a guy. If they like guys, then because they are now a guy are they gay? or are they straight because they were originally a girl? Or if they liked girls, are they a lesbian because they were born a girl and like girls, or are they straight because they now are a straight guy? Confusing
randomgirl
I always wondered what the difference between transexual and shemale was, thanks.
Not all transexuals are homosexual, but it depends if you are judging this based on their born sex or their new sex I guess.
E.g. A child, born a girl has a sexchange to become a guy. If they like guys, then because they are now a guy are they gay? or are they straight because they were originally a girl? Or if they liked girls, are they a lesbian because they were born a girl and like girls, or are they straight because they now are a straight guy? Confusing
Not all transexuals are homosexual, but it depends if you are judging this based on their born sex or their new sex I guess.
E.g. A child, born a girl has a sexchange to become a guy. If they like guys, then because they are now a guy are they gay? or are they straight because they were originally a girl? Or if they liked girls, are they a lesbian because they were born a girl and like girls, or are they straight because they now are a straight guy? Confusing
That's why we have these terms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynephilia_and_androphilia
It makes it less confusing to talk about when sex/gender are mismatched, or it's not clearly one or the other.
In a sense it is all the mind. That is they have a female mind, but a male body or vice versa. Who's to say which is the correct one? What we do know is which is easier to change to make it match the other, even if the procedure is far from perfect.
Psyk
That's why we have these terms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynephilia_and_androphilia
It makes it less confusing to talk about when sex/gender are mismatched, or it's not clearly one or the other.
In a sense it is all the mind. That is they have a female mind, but a male body or vice versa. Who's to say which is the correct one? What we do know is which is easier to change to make it match the other, even if the procedure is far from perfect.
It makes it less confusing to talk about when sex/gender are mismatched, or it's not clearly one or the other.
In a sense it is all the mind. That is they have a female mind, but a male body or vice versa. Who's to say which is the correct one? What we do know is which is easier to change to make it match the other, even if the procedure is far from perfect.
Yeah it seems that those terms make a lot more sense.
Wow... so many replies!
...
If we're talking about semantics...
I think there's a difference between saying "it's all [in?] the mind" and "it's the brain", in the sense that the former could be meant as mere imagination and the latter is something substantially hardwired.
If the brain/mind is substantially hardwired and the body is not, then I think it's safe to give more importance to the identity of the brain/mind. It's the brain/mind, not the body, that creates a person, the personality, the character, the senses everything.
So, if I were a "girl in a boy's body", I'd be lesbian if I liked girls, and straight if I liked boys.
Conversely, if I were a "boy in a girl's body", I'd be gay if I liked boys, and straight if I liked girls.
From the point of view of the transsexual person.
...
If we're talking about semantics...
I think there's a difference between saying "it's all [in?] the mind" and "it's the brain", in the sense that the former could be meant as mere imagination and the latter is something substantially hardwired.
randomgirl
E.g. A child, born a girl has a sexchange to become a guy. If they like guys, then because they are now a guy are they gay? or are they straight because they were originally a girl? Or if they liked girls, are they a lesbian because they were born a girl and like girls, or are they straight because they now are a straight guy? Confusing
If the brain/mind is substantially hardwired and the body is not, then I think it's safe to give more importance to the identity of the brain/mind. It's the brain/mind, not the body, that creates a person, the personality, the character, the senses everything.
So, if I were a "girl in a boy's body", I'd be lesbian if I liked girls, and straight if I liked boys.
Conversely, if I were a "boy in a girl's body", I'd be gay if I liked boys, and straight if I liked girls.
From the point of view of the transsexual person.
Psyk
That's why we have these terms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynephilia_and_androphilia
It makes it less confusing to talk about when sex/gender are mismatched, or it's not clearly one or the other.
In a sense it is all the mind. That is they have a female mind, but a male body or vice versa. Who's to say which is the correct one? What we do know is which is easier to change to make it match the other, even if the procedure is far from perfect.
It makes it less confusing to talk about when sex/gender are mismatched, or it's not clearly one or the other.
In a sense it is all the mind. That is they have a female mind, but a male body or vice versa. Who's to say which is the correct one? What we do know is which is easier to change to make it match the other, even if the procedure is far from perfect.
It's easier to make a hole than build a pole
its an unfortunate state of affairs. the poor people have my sympathy. sometimes nature screws it up i guess...
GOD
I don't understand it, neither do I want to.
Why not?
Keziah
I suppose so...
But then, there probably aren't that many transgender people around. And perhaps in something like an LGBT society, they're more likely to find people who will be accepting, even though they're different issues.
But then, there probably aren't that many transgender people around. And perhaps in something like an LGBT society, they're more likely to find people who will be accepting, even though they're different issues.
Hmm I'm not so sure of that. Gay people can be just as hostile to things they don't understand as anyone else. I just don't see how an LGBT society could really be that helpful to a transsexual because the vast majority of its membership will be homo/bisexuals who probably won't have much understanding of the issues even if they do accept them.
Hmm that is true but at least an LGBT society has some awareness of the issues regarding not acting in the "correct" way for their gender so there is a link there. Also as someone has pointed out there are probably very few transexuals in a university and they may not want to come out and run their own society necessarily so if it is a choice between LGBT provision and no/ limited provision then grouping Transgender people with the LGB community seems to make sense.
In reference to your first post I do have some concerns about the very early identification and treatment of trandgender children. Although i do not doubt the reality of the feelings of trans people I question wether anyone can make such a momentous decision whilst still a child and I persoally believe that a lnoger period of counselling should be required. Especially when you could argue the view that trans kids might not be trans at all vbut coming to terms with a homosexual identity and all medical science is doing is changing their bodies to conform to hetronormative views of society. That people who play with dolls must be girls and not just boys who like playing with dolls.
In reference to your first post I do have some concerns about the very early identification and treatment of trandgender children. Although i do not doubt the reality of the feelings of trans people I question wether anyone can make such a momentous decision whilst still a child and I persoally believe that a lnoger period of counselling should be required. Especially when you could argue the view that trans kids might not be trans at all vbut coming to terms with a homosexual identity and all medical science is doing is changing their bodies to conform to hetronormative views of society. That people who play with dolls must be girls and not just boys who like playing with dolls.
You are gay if you like a person with the same sex as you.
You are transexual if you change your sex.
i.e. you were are a boy but now you are a girl. If you are a girl now and fall in love with a guy, you are homosexual. But if you are a girl but love girl, you are gay.
Actually many people (inc me) are happy to be gay/bisexual without changing their sex.
You are transexual if you change your sex.
i.e. you were are a boy but now you are a girl. If you are a girl now and fall in love with a guy, you are homosexual. But if you are a girl but love girl, you are gay.
Actually many people (inc me) are happy to be gay/bisexual without changing their sex.
Obviously not - a trans person is gay or whatever if they are attracted to the same sex they identify with.
Also, a lot of trans people identify as gay first; since most people are straight, and trans people are in the wrong body. So they become a part of the LGBT community - but then they realise they're T and it's more than a little harsh to chuck 'em out.
It is sad that there is transphobia within the LGBT though.
As for kids transitioning - you're not allowed to make the decision until you're 16 I think. But you can live as the other gender. I felt a bit dodgy about under-5s transitioning, but after reading up on it it makes sense - if your toddler refuses to be known as a girl, cries a lot if referred to as such and plays solely with bob the builder stuff, then go for that, if it makes the child happy, they can make the decision when they're older. Same for a boy who tries desperately to make himself a dress to wear 24/7, plays with barbies and wants long hair and a pink room. This is a really sad article that you might find interesting: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90247842 ... Poor Bradley.
And shemale is a terrible word. :/
And I think it's sad that trans issues can be put aside as 'weird' or 'something I don't want to know about'. What if you have a trans kid? Why would you cling to ignorance rather than make the world a tiny bit better for other people? Alas.
(that said - off to watch your youtubes now.)
Also, a lot of trans people identify as gay first; since most people are straight, and trans people are in the wrong body. So they become a part of the LGBT community - but then they realise they're T and it's more than a little harsh to chuck 'em out.
It is sad that there is transphobia within the LGBT though.As for kids transitioning - you're not allowed to make the decision until you're 16 I think. But you can live as the other gender. I felt a bit dodgy about under-5s transitioning, but after reading up on it it makes sense - if your toddler refuses to be known as a girl, cries a lot if referred to as such and plays solely with bob the builder stuff, then go for that, if it makes the child happy, they can make the decision when they're older. Same for a boy who tries desperately to make himself a dress to wear 24/7, plays with barbies and wants long hair and a pink room. This is a really sad article that you might find interesting: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90247842 ... Poor Bradley.
And shemale is a terrible word. :/
And I think it's sad that trans issues can be put aside as 'weird' or 'something I don't want to know about'. What if you have a trans kid? Why would you cling to ignorance rather than make the world a tiny bit better for other people? Alas.
(that said - off to watch your youtubes now.
)
There is no such thing as a transsexual as you cannot actually change sex, no matter how much surgery you have. Maybe in the future when technology improves I will accept the existence of a trassexual.
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