HMV go into administration for the 2nd time in 6 years Watch

Emma:-)
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#81
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So, it looks like HMV have gone into administration for the second time.
What are your opinions?

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-12-28/...-in-six-years/
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DSutch
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#82
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Sad for the people whose jobs are in jeopardy. I do still buy CDs from time to time, usually if someone I know is credited on the album.
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Zarek
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Hadly surprising considering it largely sells things that no one wants to buy, in quite dated surroundings. The key is to somehow reinvent a business, taking in to account change. It's a shame though.
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ThomH97
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
This is also bad news if you like music. Spotify, Apple Music etc are destroying the ability for musicians to live off their art. Beeb did a breakdown of a typical album royalties few years back: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23840744

So, about a quid to the artist, or 25p each for a 4 piece per album sale (they'll then have to pay producers, managers etc out of that). So, say a typical 10 track album sells 100,000 copies, that's 25k per member in a four member band. Equivalent number of streams on Spotify? A fifth of that split between all of them: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/201...ams-royalties/

If you like music, buy physical media, don't enable sites like Spotify
That's not really comparing like with like. For a CD the artist is getting 13% of the sale, but there is a comparable 12% going to the artist for streaming as well according to this. There's obviously an issue to be made of the music labels taking such a huge amount, but physical/digital format doesn't seem to matter to that.

The royalty breakdown at the bottom of your second link doesn't seem to be working for me, but your maths seems to be suggesting that streaming something 80 times will give as much to the artist as buying a physical copy. That might seem a poor trade-off, but I imagine a lot more people are going to stream something who would never have bought the song, like they do on the radio. Plus they then might go and buy your music having stumbled across it.
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nulli tertius
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I wonder if HMV's problems are more to do with DVDs than music. Apparently DVD sales have fallen by 30% in a year.

There isn't the same sort of tradition of owning film and TV as there is with music. I was in a branch of FOPP, the HMV sub-chain, this week for the first time ever. 2/3 of the space was given over to DVDs and Blu-Ray but the sizeable gathering of vultures, including myself, were buying music, not films. Before electronic delivery, someone would buy an album but rent a video.
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Emma:-)
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I still buy stuff from there occasionally.
Ill miss the shop tbh. I was the same when thats entertainment went.
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paul514
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(Original post by Emma:-))
So, it looks like HMV have gone into administration for the second time.
What are your opinions?

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-12-28/...-in-six-years/
I would have cared if it was 2005 but it isn’t and this business belongs in the past.
Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
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jameswhughes
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
I wonder if HMV's problems are more to do with DVDs than music. Apparently DVD sales have fallen by 30% in a year.

There isn't the same sort of tradition of owning film and TV as there is with music. I was in a branch of FOPP, the HMV sub-chain, this week for the first time ever. 2/3 of the space was given over to DVDs and Blu-Ray but the sizeable gathering of vultures, including myself, were buying music, not films. Before electronic delivery, someone would buy an album but rent a video.
Yeah, I think there's a wider problem that they didn't know what they were doing, so tried to do everything. Had they focused on CDs and vinyl records they might have had more success with music enthusiasts, instead of branching out into other stuff like DVDs, iPod docks, headphones and t-shirts - things that would always be easier/cheaper on Amazon anyway and aren't really going to draw in customers.
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Fullofsurprises
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It's a bit amazing that a high street store selling physical DVDs and CDs has lasted this long. Apart from vinyl, very few people want to own actual media solids now.
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Zerforax
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#90
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It shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone..
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by jameswhughes)
Yeah, I think there's a wider problem that they didn't know what they were doing, so tried to do everything. Had they focused on CDs and vinyl records they might have had more success with music enthusiasts, instead of branching out into other stuff like DVDs, iPod docks, headphones and t-shirts - things that would always be easier/cheaper on Amazon anyway and aren't really going to draw in customers.
I think that is entirely true, but obviously something has gone specifically and abruptly wrong.

HMV have always been poor at selling the product. They used to own Waterstones and rather than learning from Waterstones' ways, they taught Waterstones the way to failure from which James Daunt has rescued it.

Essentially, three sorts of customer have a need of HMV.

1 A declining group of people who do not shop online. One needs to be careful in saying that is the elderly. If your mobility is limited and you have no transport, having that nice Mr Sainsbury bring your shopping is very convenient.

2 People with an urgent and reliable need for the product. That is a much smaller group for music than for say, stationary. It is really limited to persons buying for gifts. I suspect Christmas shoppers this year have, rightly, had more confidence in online retailers' delivery operations.

3 Browsers. The average Waterstones branch carries 30,000 different titles. HMV has catered very poorly for browsers for many years. If you look at how many different Elves and Goblins sagas the average Waterstones holds, and then look at how many jazz albums, the average HMV holds, you can see the difference. Moreover, the average jazz fan is not going to buy the Greatest Hits of Benny Goodman, Benny Goodman's Greatest Hits and the Best of Benny Goodman unless there is a substantial difference in their content and what is more, he probably already owns one of them.
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Emma:-)
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(Original post by Pachuco)
I got some vinyls. The selection was quite limited really. Really would love a dedicated vinyl shop, new or second hand, where music enthusiasts can just pop in for a browse and a bargain, and play some music on the turntables. Suppose people aren't into that any more. Bloody whippersnappers
That would be a good idea actually.
Im not into vinyl myself but i bet quite a few others would be.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
I think that is entirely true, but obviously something has gone specifically and abruptly wrong.

HMV have always been poor at selling the product. They used to own Waterstones and rather than learning from Waterstones' ways, they taught Waterstones the way to failure from which James Daunt has rescued it.

Essentially, three sorts of customer have a need of HMV.

1 A declining group of people who do not shop online. One needs to be careful in saying that is the elderly. If your mobility is limited and you have no transport, having that nice Mr Sainsbury bring your shopping is very convenient.

2 People with an urgent and reliable need for the product. That is a much smaller group for music than for say, stationary. It is really limited to persons buying for gifts. I suspect Christmas shoppers this year have, rightly, had more confidence in online retailers' delivery operations.

3 Browsers. The average Waterstones branch carries 30,000 different titles. HMV has catered very poorly for browsers for many years. If you look at how many different Elves and Goblins sagas the average Waterstones holds, and then look at how many jazz albums, the average HMV holds, you can see the difference. Moreover, the average jazz fan is not going to buy the Greatest Hits of Benny Goodman, Benny Goodman's Greatest Hits and the Best of Benny Goodman unless there is a substantial difference in their content and what is more, he probably already owns one of them.
Benny Goodman, for the benefit of most TSR readers who won't have heard of him, is an old-time musical artist of the jazz genre. He's from the very ancient period before Elvis when something called 'Swing' (whatever that may be) was rather popular. (Further translations of Nulli articles are available on request - donations to Understanding the Old Folk.)

The modern equivalent is Michael Bublé.

é






é
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Benny Goodman, for the benefit of most TSR readers who won't have heard of him, is an old-time musical artist of the jazz genre. He's from the very ancient period before Elvis when something called 'Swing' (whatever that may be) was rather popular. (Further translations of Nulli articles are available on request - donations to Understanding the Old Folk.)

The modern equivalent is Michael Bublé.

é






é
You can tell I am not into jazz

I buy all my music on CD and the vast majority of it, I buy over the counter, but I don't go to HMV.
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OxFossil
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CDs were never going to survive as a format because they do not have built-in obsolescence. They last for many years with no deterioration in what is near perfect musical fidelity. You might just as well expect Ford to built the "one car to last a lifetime" model.
Manufacturers need to sell us stuff, over and over again. So ephemeral formats, that quickly become obsolete with because they are dependent on a complex interactions between software and hardware technologies, on temporary access subscription models, on immaterial forms, and prone to loss through sheer carelessness and error, are de rigeur.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
You can tell I am not into jazz

I buy all my music on CD and the vast majority of it, I buy over the counter, but I don't go to HMV.
You oldsters, buying actual 'things' and carrying them home and then storing them someplace. How sad but in a way poignant. :lol:
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OxFossil
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
You oldsters, buying actual 'things' and carrying them home and then storing them someplace. How sad but in a way poignant. :lol:
Have you ever tried sucking on a Werther's Original via Spotify?
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by OxFossil)
Have you ever tried sucking on a Werther's Original via Spotify?
No, but I watch cakes being baked on the telly pretty regularly.
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OxFossil
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
No, but I watch cakes being baked on the telly pretty regularly.
Bet that takes aaaages, unless you've got one of them old cathode ray tubes
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by OxFossil)
CDs were never going to survive as a format because they do not have built-in obsolescence. They last for many years with no deterioration in what is near perfect musical fidelity. You might just as well expect Ford to built the "one car to last a lifetime" model.
Manufacturers need to sell us stuff, over and over again. So ephemeral formats, that quickly become obsolete with because they are dependent on a complex interactions between software and hardware technologies, on temporary access subscription models, on immaterial forms, and prone to loss through sheer carelessness and error, are de rigeur.
I am sorry that doesn't work as an analysis. Record companies have not chosen to take CDs off the market.

The effect of market saturation limiting demand is also small given that number 5 in the current Classic FM chart is Carols From King's College Cambridge, 7 is 100 Years of Nine Lessons and Carols from King's College Cambridge, 9 is Christmas at King's, 10 is Essential Carols King's College Choir, 19 is the King's Christmas Collection, 20 is Carols From King's-The Very Best 22 is Once in Royal David's City-The King's College Choir, 25 is Favourite Carols From King's, 27 is Classic FM-Carols From King's 28 is Favourite Carols From King's (25 is Cleobury, 28 is Willcox) and 29 is Noel-Christmas at King's.

Do you want to offer any predictions for what will be in the chart come this time next year?
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