Are my GCSE/AS grades good enough for Oxbridge?

kellywood_5

since Oxford offers are more often AAB than those at Cambridge, QUOTE]

really?! does anyone know if this is true, i always thought cambridge gave more AAB offers than oxford especialy since in the prospectuse with some subjects the minimum requirment is AAA/AAB.

Reply 62

Sorry (for those elder TSR members - H&E I have read the FAQ :biggrin:

) to add to this thread with my situation but I felt that this might be useful to vent my many preoccupations.

Anyway, at GCSE I got 5A*, 6A, 1B which I know is fine and even in music (the B) I have a number of valid excuses to explain it (an extra, done in half a term, coursework marked down). So I know my GCSEs are average for Oxbridge and should not hold me back.

However, in my AS levels I only managed
A: Maths
B: History, Physics
C: Further Maths, Spanish

Luckily I will not have to do too many resits because I only really f'ed up a few modules, e.g. History (A,A,E).

Also, mirroring another poster in the thread, I go to a state comprehensive that until recently was failing and with results well below the national average (although I was overjoyed to hear that this year the 5 A*-C pass rate jumped from the twenties where it has languished for many years to 33%). My AS Level results were probably some of the best in the year and only one other (stupidly clever, btw) student is applying to Oxbridge: Maths at Cambridge.

Will the school's situation be taken into account? Only I chose this school out of principle (it being my local comprehensive) rather than it being forced upon me and am very far from the stereotypical working-class, achieving-type state-schooler: my mother and father being educated at Manchester and Oxford, respectively. I would not wish to take unfair advantage of my school although I think it must have had some effect on my results.

In my favour, I really do enjoy learning and have a 'passion for my subject' and read widely on the subjects of philosophy, politics, economics, physics and mathematics and have done since I was extremely young (reading, for example, Sophie's World while in primary school). Obviously, though, pretty much all serious Oxbridge applicants will have read widely and will be quite bright (not to mention clever).

I was planning to apply for PPE at Oxford. Am I simply worrying too much or would it be more sensible to apply after I get my final A Level results when hopefully those Cs will have disappeared? If nothing else, I feel certain the AS results do not represent my genuine ability. :redface:

Sorry, again, for the long post. Phew. It makes me sound so narcissistic. :frown:

OT: I have picked up the rumour and have a few personal anecdotes to suggest that Cambridge students tend to be geeks/workaholics, while Oxford students tend to be more well-rounded and more workshy. Is this a fair conclusion?! I expect a deluge of protests from the Tabs!

Reply 63

kellywood_5

17

edmundwillis

Anyway, at GCSE I got 5A*, 6A, 1B which I know is fine and even in music (the B) I have a number of valid excuses to explain it (an extra, done in half a term, coursework marked down). So I know my GCSEs are average for Oxbridge and should not hold me back.

However, in my AS levels I only managed
A: Maths
B: History, Physics
C: Further Maths, Spanish

Luckily I will not have to do too many resits because I only really f'ed up a few modules, e.g. History (A,A,E).

Also, mirroring another poster in the thread, I go to a state comprehensive that until recently was failing and with results well below the national average (although I was overjoyed to hear that this year the 5 A*-C pass rate jumped from the twenties where it has languished for many years to 33%). My AS Level results were probably some of the best in the year and only one other (stupidly clever, btw) student is applying to Oxbridge: Maths at Cambridge.

5 A*s, 6 As and 1 B from a school with a 33% 5 A*-C pass rate is pretty exceptional, especially considering the B was in an unrelated subject done in half a term! They show you have the ability and I've heard, but I don't know how true this is, that GCSE results are more important than AS results because they show achievement at the end of a 2 year course. As for your AS results, can't you just decline them? Then they won't have to go on your UCAS form and no university will ever know them. Try to get an AAA/AAB prediction.

Reply 64

kellywood_5

5 A*s, 6 As and 1 B from a school with a 33% 5 A*-C pass rate is pretty exceptional, especially considering the B was in an unrelated subject done in half a term! They show you have the ability and I've heard, but I don't know how true this is, that GCSE results are more important than AS results because they show achievement at the end of a 2 year course. As for your AS results, can't you just decline them? Then they won't have to go on your UCAS form and no university will ever know them. Try to get an AAA/AAB prediction.

Thanks, kellywood_5, that is very reassuring.

I have also heard that GCSE results are more important because AS Levels are "new and unreliable and often people will go on to improve in their A2s" (from an Oxford PPE undergraduate at an 'Apply to Oxbridge' event) and because "GCSEs are a better indicator of university performance than A Levels" (from a Cambridge Physics tutor at the same event).

Hold on, writing that is beginning to convince me to apply this year. :smile:

On declining grades I will need to speak with my teachers but hopefully that will be possible. A question: is it better to decline all the grades rather than only the Bs and Cs?

If I declined some would they think "if he has only accepted some grades then that must mean the others are pretty poor"? [ :frown:

]

Alternatively, if I declined them all would they think "it must be school policy not to cash in AS Levels" [ :wink:

] or would they think "gosh, this guy must have got an absolutely disastrous set of results"? [ :frown:

]

What would people advise? Do Oxford admissions tutors look on declined grades with suspicion? (I know Cambridge even ask for UMS scores :eek:

)

Reply 65

kitsune

12

Decline ALL THE GRADES!!! So the college will think that the school policy is to NOT cash in anything until the end of year 13! :smile:

Reply 66

H&E

Well, my gut feeling is that you're just the sort of person who gets in with "average" grades. Believe it or not, the vast majority of Oxbridge applicants do not real widely, and don't have your passion for learning.

Your GCSE's are excellent, so I wouldn't worry about them. Your AS's are obviously less good, though by no means poor enough to seriously damange your chances. I'm not sure what to recommend regarding cashing in, but enough people have now asked about that for me to email an admissions tutor to try and find out. If you have to make a decision on cashing in within the next few days, I'd advise you spend some time on the university website looking for a department that might be able to give you some more definitive information and giving them a ring.

Whatever you do, remember as a PPE'ist you get the chance to send in written work and sit a test (or at least you used to, this may have changed), so you've got to more opportunities to show what you can do. With you history grade I'd make an effort to produce the best written work you can, to prove that you are capable of writing good essays.

nb thanks for reading the FAQ! Hopefully I'll soon be able to add in a section about cashing in AS grades...

Reply 67

kitsune

Decline ALL THE GRADES!!! So the college will think that the school policy is to NOT cash in anything until the end of year 13! :smile:

Sir Walter Scott

Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive.

In all serious, though, I think I shall follow that advice. Thank you, kitsune. And I have finally made the decision to apply this year! :biggrin:

Mahatma Gandhi

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

And all that. :cool:

Reply 68

H&E

Kitsune, how do you know they'll think that? How do you know they won't check with Edmundwillis' school and realise it's not a general policy? It's perfectly possible, I'd do that if I were a tutor.

You're just speculating. I don't object to that, but you should make clear that in fact, you've no real idea.

Reply 69

H&E

Well, my gut feeling is that you're just the sort of person who gets in with "average" grades. Believe it or not, the vast majority of Oxbridge applicants do not real widely, and don't have your passion for learning.

I hope so.

H&E

Your GCSE's are excellent, so I wouldn't worry about them. Your AS's are obviously less good, though by no means poor enough to seriously damange your chances. I'm not sure what to recommend regarding cashing in, but enough people have now asked about that for me to email an admissions tutor to try and find out. If you have to make a decision on cashing in within the next few days, I'd advise you spend some time on the university website looking for a department that might be able to give you some more definitive information and giving them a ring.

I think that sounds like a good course of action. I should know more about declining and UCAS when I get back to school, though. And, as I said in the previous post, I have finally decided to take the plunge, as it were, and apply this year.

H&E

Whatever you do, remember as a PPE'ist you get the chance to send in written work and sit a test (or at least you used to, this may have changed), so you've got to more opportunities to show what you can do. With you history grade I'd make an effort to produce the best written work you can, to prove that you are capable of writing good essays.

Interestingly, my essays were not too much of a problem. In the two essay-based exams (Gladstone and Disraeli and Fascist Italy) I got high As, whereas in my source-based exam (Rise of National Socialism) I just scraped an E, bringing the overall grade down to a B. I think the main reason was that the essay modules were taught by an experienced Oxford graduate whereas the Nazi module was taught by an NQT. Whatever the reason, I clearly was not well prepared/had not prepared myself well for that module.

You are right: Oxford does still require applicants to submit written work and sit a written exam. I must admit I am slightly worried about the exam - I have seen the PPE past paper on the Oxford website and it looks do-able although some of the questions seem very open indeed. Are there any other past papers available because I have heard from others on TSR that at their schools they have had lessons where they have gone through such past papers? I do not think my performance could compete with people who have had such good preparation, even if they are in the minority.

H&E

nb thanks for reading the FAQ! Hopefully I'll soon be able to add in a section about cashing in AS grades...

It was the very least I could do. I think that section could prove very useful, too.

And thanks for all your advice/encouragement.

Reply 70

kitsune

12

H&E

Kitsune, how do you know they'll think that? How do you know they won't check with Edmundwillis' school and realise it's not a general policy? It's perfectly possible, I'd do that if I were a tutor.

You're just speculating. I don't object to that, but you should make clear that in fact, you've no real idea.

mmm it's true that I dont have any concrete idea... but if they call the school (is that likely?? :eek:

) they school just says... we didnt cash in those grades!!! What's the big deal???

Reply 71

H&E

Kitsune, how do you know they'll think that? How do you know they won't check with Edmundwillis' school and realise it's not a general policy? It's perfectly possible, I'd do that if I were a tutor.

You're just speculating. I don't object to that, but you should make clear that in fact, you've no real idea.

That is my fear as well and I do feel slightly uncomfortable with the whole thing because it does seem a little deceptive (see earlier quote!). I think I will first speak with my teachers and see what they advise and, if that proves inconclusive, email an admissions tutor, as you suggest. Surely the tutors would ascertain that I am something of a weaker candidate if I am panicking like this? Or would they respect me more for my ambition to succeed?!

Thanks again everyone for all your help. Now I will just have to write the personal statement and pick a college!

Reply 72

H&E

Anyhoo, I've just had an email response. There is no general policy. The advice is to speak to your school and to check what their policy is: schools are encouraged (and often do) write their AS cashing in policy on their reference, not to mention that many include grades in the reference (which would make not cashing in look rather silly!). Tutors don't assume not cashing in equals terrible grades, except in cases where there is a general school policy of immediately cashing in grades.

So basically, if your school has a policy of giving out information, the choice has kinda already been made for you. If it hasn't, you have some thinking to do. What I would do, which admittedly is a bit smarmy, is cash them in, then use the additional info box on the Oxford form to explain how your school background, where you've suffered from some very average teaching (giving the example of your E taught by a NQT pulling you down), means that you've learned to really value and make use of teachers, which'll put you in an excellent position to benefit from the excellent tutors at Oxford.

EDIT:

Surely the tutors would ascertain that I am something of a weaker candidate if I am panicking like this? Or would they respect me more for my ambition to succeed?!

i) It's generally advisable to ring up tutors at college where you're sure you won't be applying, just to be on the safe side.
ii) If Oxford rejected every applicant who panicked about their application...would be a very empty place!

Reply 73

H&E

Anyhoo, I've just had an email response. There is no general policy. The advice is to speak to your school and to check what their policy is: schools are encouraged (and often do) write their AS cashing in policy on their reference, not to mention that many include grades in the reference (which would make not cashing in look rather silly!). Tutors don't assume not cashing in equals terrible grades, except in cases where there is a general school policy of immediately cashing in grades.

H&E you are a legend. Thank you.

H&E

So basically, if your school has a policy of giving out information, the choice has kinda already been made for you. If it hasn't, you have some thinking to do. What I would do, which admittedly is a bit smarmy, is cash them in, then use the additional info box on the Oxford form to explain how your school background, where you've suffered from some very average teaching (giving the example of your E taught by a NQT pulling you down), means that you've learned to really value and make use of teachers, which'll put you in an excellent position to benefit from the excellent tutors at Oxford.

Very smarmy indeed! I would not want to offend any of my teachers but it certainly did have an impact. Also, if I made that clear would they not just think that I am incapable of learning without being coached? I personally don't believe that is the case. You make a valid point, though. I think I really would "benefit from the excellent tutors at Oxford" and the tutorial system would suit me tremendously because I am engaged, interested and good at discussing and analyzing concepts/ideas. And so modest, too. :frown:

My school does not have a rich history of sending pupils to Russell Group universities. The *vast* majority go on to attend the local university (Hertfordshire) and so I think the school is very flexible in terms of its policy in giving out information.

Anyway, I think I will speak with my teachers and see what they say. Thank you very much for emailing the tutor. I really appreciate it.

Reply 74