M517 – Fascism Condemnation Motion 2019 Watch

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Saracen's Fez
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M517 – Fascism Condemnation Motion 2019, Connor27
This House recognises

That states attempting to implement a Fascist ideology have repeatedly massacred their own citizens
That under the Third Reich, 46 million were killed as a direct result of state action, including 6,000,000 Jews in the holocaust, and 11,000,000 people who died in the extermination camps as a whole.

That under Nazi influence, opposition political groups like the Edelweiss pirates, and parties composed of communists, socialists, liberals and conservatives alike were terrorised by the Sturmabteilung and the Schutzstaffel; detained and surveilled by the Gestapo and in some cases executed summarily.

That under the leadership of Benito Mussolini, the Italian Government was complicit in the above crimes and killed 400,000 during the Second World War in their own right; as well as 30,000 in the illegal and racially motivated Abyssinian crisis.

That under the reign of Emperor Hirohito from his ascension in 1926 to the surrender of Japan in 1945; the empire of Japan employed hateful fascist, totalitarian and ultranationalist policies. This included brutal exploitation of colonies in the Far East, such as Korea; as well as illegal invasion and subjugation of Chinese territory (the Manchurian crisis); and the horrific kamikaze assault on Pearl Harbour. The Japanese regime from 1926-45 showed no mercy in its treatment of POWs and frequently showed no regard for rules such as the Geneva convention.

That numerous other mass killings occurred in other Fascist regimes, including Chile under Augusto Pinochet, Peru under Alberto Fujimori and Spain under Francisco Franco.

This House condemns

Fascist ideology in all its forms, and any individuals that seek to employ fascism in the U.K.
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JMR2019.
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Aye
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Connor27
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(Original post by JMR2019.)
Aye
lol. Fell right into the bait - aye on this but no on the Communism Condemnation Motion despite them essentially being the same template.

At least I’ll be consistent and vote aye on both.
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JMR2019.
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(Original post by Connor27)
lol. Fell right into the bait - aye on this but no on the Communism Condemnation Motion despite them essentially being the same template.

At least I’ll be consistent and vote aye on both.
Read my explanation under Communism Condemnation Motion.
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AperfectBalance
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Im waiting for the "The house condemns the mass murder of pregnant women bill" this has no actual point
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ns_2
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Under no circumstances must we repeat the mistakes of the past; both extremes - fascism and communism - are exactly that extremes: views that cannot be held by the majority lest the world fall into disrupte again.
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04MR17
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I oppose extremism in all forms.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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Aye. Lazy bait about the communism motion where the author shows a complete lack of understanding about communism or fascism - particularly that deaths under communist regimes are not an aim and part of communism while fascism requires the systematic oppression and eventually murder of outgroups.
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Aye. Lazy bait about the communism motion where the author shows a complete lack of understanding about communism or fascism - particularly that deaths under communist regimes are not an aim and part of communism while fascism requires the systematic oppression and eventually murder of outgroups.
Communism requires the systematic oppression and eventual eradication of its “outgroup” too - the bourgeoisie/kulaks/whatever you want to call anyone with a bit of ambition and desire to improve themselves.

I guess studying political theory at the second best social science institution on the planet gives me a poor understanding of these ideologies then... oh well.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by Connor27)
I guess studying political theory at the second best social science institution on the planet gives me a poor understanding of these ideologies then... oh well.
We all know where you study dear leader.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Connor27)
I guess studying political theory at the second best social science institution on the planet gives me a poor understanding of these ideologies then... oh well.
All it gives you is a big head. Degrees require you to learn for yourself, understanding can't be given.
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Justvisited
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(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
M517 – Fascism Condemnation Motion 2019, Connor27
the horrific kamikaze assault on Pearl Harbour.
Leaving aside the misspelling of Harbor, this is a flat error of fact. PH was in December 1941; kamikaze attacks didn't start until October 1944.

More broadly, the entire motion is full of overloose definitions. Strictly speaking, of the Axis powers only Italy was "fascist"; they were all authoritarian, as were some Allied states and so many others before and since, on right and left. Nor does nationalism per se confine itself to one or other wing, e.g. in Greece traditionally nationalism is more aligned with PASOK than with ND.

Very tendentious indeed.
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LongMarch
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This is a very childish thread. OP appears to be a wikipedia intellectual.
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AperfectBalance
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Aye. Lazy bait about the communism motion where the author shows a complete lack of understanding about communism or fascism - particularly that deaths under communist regimes are not an aim and part of communism while fascism requires the systematic oppression and eventually murder of outgroups.
Yeah im sure the mass murder of right wing people (or anyone that isnt a communist/marxist/idiot) were never the aim of the communist regime or the millions of people that died because of communist regimes actively trying to exterminate them or putting in destructive policies
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LongMarch
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(Original post by 04MR17)
I oppose extremism in all forms.
Then to be consistent, do you oppose the necklacing carried out by the thing in your profile picture and his comrades?
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(Original post by LongMarch)
Then to be consistent, do you oppose the necklacing carried out by the thing in your profile picture and his comrades?
Of course. Assuming you're referring to the person in my avatar. Since the person in my profile picture is me.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Connor27)
Communism requires the systematic oppression and eventual eradication of its “outgroup” too - the bourgeoisie/kulaks/whatever you want to call anyone with a bit of ambition and desire to improve themselves.

I guess studying political theory at the second best social science institution on the planet gives me a poor understanding of these ideologies then... oh well.

Perhaps you should spend more time studying and less time writing lazy joke bills then.

(Original post by AperfectBalance)
Yeah im sure the mass murder of right wing people (or anyone that isnt a communist/marxist/idiot) were never the aim of the communist regime or the millions of people that died because of communist regimes actively trying to exterminate them or putting in destructive policies
Ignoring your lazy dig about intellect when repeated arguments I've had with you have shown you lacking in any knowledge about biology, sociology or psychology for starters, those regimes do not encompass all of communist theory. Communism focuses on common ownership and the abolition of the state - it is not inherently oppressive or violent. Fascism by contrary is, it requires oppression of political opponents and considers political violence to be necessary. The two are not comparable - communisms problems have been in execution (although the desire by the US to quash anyone disagreeing with them didn't help), fascism is inherently monstrous.
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LeapingLucy
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(Original post by Connor27)
Communism requires the systematic oppression and eventual eradication of its “outgroup” too - the bourgeoisie/kulaks/whatever you want to call anyone with a bit of ambition and desire to improve themselves.

I guess studying political theory at the second best social science institution on the planet gives me a poor understanding of these ideologies then... oh well.
I thought you were a first year? You haven’t even finished the Introduction to Political Theory module!

Plus Marxism/communism don't come up until Week 16 of GV100 - in Lent term - so clearly whatever you know about these ideologies you have taught yourself or got from politics A-level, not from LSE.

And speaking as someone who has also studied political theory at the same institution, I don't consider a one-hour lecture & one-hour class on Karl Marx to have given me an infallible understanding of communist ideology...
Last edited by LeapingLucy; 2 months ago
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Aph
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Condemning an ideology is stupid, thoughts are just that. We should only condemn actions.
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LongMarch
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Perhaps you should spend more time studying and less time writing lazy joke bills then.



Ignoring your lazy dig about intellect when repeated arguments I've had with you have shown you lacking in any knowledge about biology, sociology or psychology for starters, those regimes do not encompass all of communist theory. Communism focuses on common ownership and the abolition of the state - it is not inherently oppressive or violent. Fascism by contrary is, it requires oppression of political opponents and considers political violence to be necessary. The two are not comparable - communisms problems have been in execution (although the desire by the US to quash anyone disagreeing with them didn't help), fascism is inherently monstrous.
Only execution? Clearly you know very little about the implementation of communism outside of theory, because it involves networks of secret police,stasis, community informants, labour camps, torture, starvation, mass rape and the list goes on. Any attempt to liberalise communist ideology and its implementation is quite frankly laughable.
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