Was it right of us to develop and chop down the Bornean rainforest for our needs ? Watch

Cleverboy1991
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The Bornean Rainforest is hardly a rain forest any more, the majority of it is palm oil plantations, motorways, built into cities, and a lot of it is now a wasteland dump. About 13 percent of the rainforest remains and the 87 % has been logged in 30 years.
They are saying it is inevitable the rest of it will be logged soon also and it too will be land for palm oil, land for humans , paved roads e.t.c. and it supplies us in the Western world with our daily consumables.

I was once unsure if it was a good thing or not to develop the Borneo Rain forest for our needs but I think it is a good thing, it has brought so many out of poverty and lead them to a better life and given us in the Western world a better life too.

this is not a debate whether we should save the rainforest as it is too late for that, it is gone and the little of it left will be gone soon as well.

do you think it is a good thing what we have done to the rainforest and the fact in doing so we have provided many people with a better healthier life ? ?

We would be hypocrites to tell them they should have saved the rain forest, we did the same chopping down all the tree's in the UK and other European countries and developed it so there is nothing wrong with the fact they have done the same with their land
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TommyDH
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It's criminal what the political elite and corporate oligarchies have done to this world. No of course it's not a good thing.
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CoolCavy
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No obviously. The same was done to the Uk though, all the fields we have were once forests, it's not just a third world issue
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Cleverboy1991
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(Original post by TommyDH)
It's criminal what the political elite and corporate oligarchies have done to this world. No of course it's not a good thing.
But many people are now in employment , many are brought out of poverty e.t.c. and more land for them to live in houses . It's a shame we couldn't have it both waysand keep the rainforest but it doesn't work like that and we must put ourselves and other people in need first, we live in luxury here after chopping down the vast rainforests in the UK so how canwe tell them they were wrong to chop all their trees down too ?

we also benefit from the ongoing deforestation over there
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TommyDH
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(Original post by Cleverboy1991)
But many people are now in employment , many are brought out of poverty e.t.c. and more land for them to live in houses . It's a shame we couldn't have it both waysand keep the rainforest but it doesn't work like that and we must put ourselves and other people in need first, we live in luxury here after chopping down the vast rainforests in the UK so how canwe tell them they were wrong to chop all their trees down too ?

we also benefit from the ongoing deforestation over there
Nobody benefits from the mass extinction of ecology and ultimately mass suffocation of the human species. We need trees for air. No trees = no oxygen. That simple.

I don't live in luxury nor did I chop down any forests. Also we didn't have 'rainforests' lol.

Not sure who this 'we' and 'us' is you keep speaking of, as far as I'm aware I've never had a say in any of these decisions past nor present, if I had I'd be vehemently against it. I use recycled and sustainable/farmed produce (paper, wood etc) where and when I can.

They're chopping these rainforests down then wondering why they're getting floods, tsunamis, hurricanes and why there's less and less oxygen and more and more CO2.

They (the political elite and corporate gangsters) are going to kill us all.
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TheTroll73
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RIP Earth
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paul514
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(Original post by Cleverboy1991)
The Bornean Rainforest is hardly a rain forest any more, the majority of it is palm oil plantations, motorways, built into cities, and a lot of it is now a wasteland dump. About 13 percent of the rainforest remains and the 87 % has been logged in 30 years.
They are saying it is inevitable the rest of it will be logged soon also and it too will be land for palm oil, land for humans , paved roads e.t.c. and it supplies us in the Western world with our daily consumables.

I was once unsure if it was a good thing or not to develop the Borneo Rain forest for our needs but I think it is a good thing, it has brought so many out of poverty and lead them to a better life and given us in the Western world a better life too.

this is not a debate whether we should save the rainforest as it is too late for that, it is gone and the little of it left will be gone soon as well.

do you think it is a good thing what we have done to the rainforest and the fact in doing so we have provided many people with a better healthier life ? ?

We would be hypocrites to tell them they should have saved the rain forest, we did the same chopping down all the tree's in the UK and other European countries and developed it so there is nothing wrong with the fact they have done the same with their land
Of course it isn’t right, but the system is ****ed and no one goes on about the elephant in the room population controls.

You can’t have a population expand 11 times in 250 years and expect everything to be ok, it’s not.

One of the first things you learn about in biology is the food chain or it was in my day, when you are at the top numbers are only controlled when food becomes scarce and that’s what I think will happen to us eventually and it’s a joke. It’s the Asians and Africans that are the problem more than 5 billion between them and Africa is set to grow by three billion this century.
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DrMikeHuntHertz
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Socialism created a scarcity in trees where non existed before.
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Jebedee
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Shame. But countries with fully functioning economies don't have the same reasons to have to get rid of their natural resources for a buck.

It's a good reason for everyone to stop moaning, and get to work.
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Wōden
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(Original post by Cleverboy1991)
But many people are now in employment , many are brought out of poverty e.t.c. and more land for them to live in houses . It's a shame we couldn't have it both waysand keep the rainforest but it doesn't work like that and we must put ourselves and other people in need first, we live in luxury here after chopping down the vast rainforests in the UK so how canwe tell them they were wrong to chop all their trees down too ?
Deforestation in Britain and Europe has not been good for our local ecology at all, and we are beginning to see the effects. Perhaps most worryingly, we now have a continually declining bee and pollinating insect population as a direct result of the desruction of their wild habitats such as forest and wildflower meadow, I surely don't need to explain why this is an incredibly bad thing?

And that's just one of many repercussions of deforestation. We could also talk about;

- Reduced air quality and increased CO2 levels contributing to climate change.

- Soil degredation and errosion.

- Increased contamination of ground water, trees actually filter out and trap harmfull pollutants as they draw water up through their roots.

- Extinction of predatory species, leading to overpopulation of pest species such as deer and rabbit which are not only highly destructive to agriculture, but also to remaining forests. They destroy young sapplings making it difficult for the forests to continually reproduce (This is a big problem in Britain and Western Europe, where we have next to no large predators left.)

Easter Island (the one with all the stone heads) is an interesting microcosm for the stuff I'm talking about. There was once a thriving, and advanced civilisation on the island, but it collapsed and most of the populace was forced to leave. Why? Because they completely cleared and deforested the entire place, destroyed the local ecology and rendered it more or less uninhabitable.

Whatever luxury we gain from deforestation and habitat destruction won't last forever, and the notion than humans can just keep flattening and concreting the wilderness and everything will be just fine is such outrageous hubris. The complete and utter detatchment from reality so many people seem to have these days is infuriating. They need to take their eyes off their iPhones, step out of the shopping mall and realise that humans are NOT some separate entity from nature, and that our survival depends on the health of natural ecosystems.
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paul514
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(Original post by Wōden)
Deforestation in Britain and Europe has not been good for our local ecology at all, and we are beginning to see the effects. Perhaps most worryingly, we now have a continually declining bee and pollinating insect population as a direct result of the desruction of their wild habitats such as forest and wildflower meadow, I surely don't need to explain why this is an incredibly bad thing?

And that's just one of many repercussions of deforestation. We could also talk about;

- Reduced air quality and increased CO2 levels contributing to climate change.

- Soil degredation and errosion.

- Increased contamination of ground water, trees actually filter out and trap harmfull pollutants as they draw water up through their roots.

- Extinction of predatory species, leading to overpopulation of pest species such as deer and rabbit which are not only highly destructive to agriculture, but also to remaining forests. They destroy young sapplings making it difficult for the forests to continually reproduce (This is a big problem in Britain and Western Europe, where we have next to no large predators left.)

Easter Island (the one with all the stone heads) is an interesting microcosm for the stuff I'm talking about. There was once a thriving, and advanced civilisation on the island, but it collapsed and most of the populace was forced to leave. Why? Because they completely cleared and deforested the entire place, destroyed the local ecology and rendered it more or less uninhabitable.

Whatever luxury we gain from deforestation and habitat destruction won't last forever, and the notion than humans can just keep flattening and concreting the wilderness and everything will be just fine is such outrageous hubris. The complete and utter detatchment from reality so many people seem to have these days is infuriating. They need to take their eyes off their iPhones, step out of the shopping mall and realise that humans are NOT some separate entity from nature, and that our survival depends on the health of natural ecosystems.
I agree but I think the bee thing could be down to pesticides
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the bear
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Mother Earth will not let us go unpunished. no sirree bob.

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Wōden
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(Original post by paul514)
I agree but I think the bee thing could be down to pesticides
It's almost certainly both.

Either way, it's a result of human encroachment upon wild spaces, which itself is compounded by overpopulation, as you rightly pointed out
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TommyDH
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(Original post by Wōden)
It's almost certainly both.

Either way, it's a result of human encroachment upon wild spaces, which itself is compounded by overpopulation, as you rightly pointed out
I'm unironically waiting [hoping] for a pandemic. I live in the countryside, and I've already - no joke- scouted out secluded areas where I'll have access to food and water. I've already stocked up on tinned foods and water filters.

I'm getting paranoid but I'm certain there'll be some kind of societal collapse soon. Either pandemic, civil unrest, or all out tyranny.

A mini ice age would be great too.

That'll soon the world out.
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OxFossil
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The election of Bolsonaro in Brazil has effectively opened the way to the clearance of much of the Brazilian Amazon rainforest, at a time when deforestation of the Peruvian Amazon is also accelearting. Ironically, perhaps, the impact of forest clearance is likely to cause especially severe effects within Brazil itself, as rainfall will diminish, and the semi-arid North-East - already suffering from drought - is liable to become even drier. Crop failure and mass movement of the population is lkely.

Meanwhile, the Polish governmkent has just announced a campaign to exterminate the entire population of wild boar, supposedly to control swine flu. Like the UK's badger cull, this is based on scapegoating native wild animals for a problem that is caused by poor livestock practice - the long range transport of pigs and pig products with zero biosecurity.

We continue to treat the natural world as if there are no consequences, and we will pay.
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