ban on kosher and halal slaughter has come into effect in the Flanders region of Belg Watch

Talon
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#41
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(Original post by nstar12)
I wouldn't say it's an attack on religion, but most certainly it is preventing Muslims and Jews from practicing their religion. They will have to buy their meat abroad, which in some extreme cases, could lead to severe food shortages.

I think this is one of the instances where the law of the country should not be prioritised over religion.
On the contrary, I think this is one of the instances where the religions need to evolve and stop the inhumane practices.
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Gofre
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(Original post by Megxn0)
Wouldn’t make more sense to ban non-stunned meat
From what I can tell this is actually what's happening, with literally no restrictions on actual kosher/halal rituals being performed during slaughter. I can't find any link that says this new law goes any further than stopping non-stunned slaughter, but "banning halal" is obviously a catchier headline and religious groups would like to conflate this new welfare restriction with interfering with entire religious practices. In reality neither of their religious texts says anything that could be construed as disallowing animals to be rendered unconscious shortly before killing them.
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Obolinda
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(Original post by Gofre)
From what I can tell this is actually what's happening, with literally no restrictions on actual kosher/halal rituals being performed during slaughter. I can't find any link that says this new law goes any further than stopping non-stunned slaughter, but "banning halal" is obviously a catchier headline and religious groups would like to conflate this new welfare restriction with interfering with entire religious practices. In reality neither of their religious texts says anything that could be construed as disallowing animals to be rendered unconscious shortly before killing them.
You're right. Although some Jews believe meat shouldn't be stunned as animal intended for food must be healthy and uninjured at the time of shechita. Stunning methods injure the animal, making it treifa (non-kosher and thus prohibited). If the stunning kills the animal it makes it neveila (an animal which has not been shechted) and is forbidden as food for Jews. I think it's the same in Islam, although most halal meat in the UK is pre-stunned anyway. 🤷*♀️
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Gofre
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(Original post by Obolinda)
You're right. Although some Jews believe meat shouldn't be stunned as animal intended for food must be healthy and uninjured at the time of shechita. Stunning methods injure the animal, making it treifa (non-kosher and thus prohibited). If the stunning kills the animal it makes it neveila (an animal which has not been shechted) and is forbidden as food for Jews. I think it's the same in Islam, although most halal meat in the UK is pre-stunned anyway. 🤷*♀️
Yeah most Muslim and Jewish groups in the UK had no issue accepting that a controlled stun immediately before slaughter didn't invalidate their customs.
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Obolinda
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(Original post by Gofre)
Yeah most Muslim and Jewish groups in the UK had no issue accepting that a controlled stun immediately before slaughter didn't invalidate their customs.
Yh, I know.
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by Megxn0)
People nowadays love the word “feelings”. It’s not about feelings, it’s literally about whether or not they can practice their religion.
The taliban think they are practicing their religion, it doesn’t mean we should allow it. The same goes for the inhumane slaughter of animals, just because it offends someone’s religious feelings, does not mean it should be allowed. Sure, pray 5 times a day, cut your sons foreskin off - but don’t subject animals to incredible amounts of pain in the name of a nonexistent God
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Ciel.
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About time. Britain needs to follow.
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Megxn0
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
The taliban think they are practicing their religion, it doesn’t mean we should allow it. The same goes for the inhumane slaughter of animals, just because it offends someone’s religious feelings, does not mean it should be allowed. Sure, pray 5 times a day, cut your sons foreskin off - but don’t subject animals to incredible amounts of pain in the name of a nonexistent God
There’s a difference between the Taliban killing people for the sake of it, and normal people killing animals for food. If we’re taking about ‘feelings’, why should Jewish people care that the way they kill animals offends other people? Animals go through an immense amount of pain regardless. When you go to a restaurant, or takeaway, do you know exactly how the animal has been killed? Do you ask the person selling it to you how the animal was treated?
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nstar12
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(Original post by Jebedee)
I wouldn't say animal cruelty is a human right.
Some research has actually suggested that the animals will feel less pain by being slaughtered as halal or kosher meat as opposed to being stunned, which is still painful to the animal.
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nstar12
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
You’re wrong. Treatment of animals > religious feelings
This isn't just 'religious feelings' anymore, they are now preventing people from practicing their religion. If animal treatment was so prioritised, why hasn't all meat slaughter been banned? Wouldn't you say it's inhumane to rear animals just to kill them for food?
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paul514
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(Original post by Megxn0)
There’s a difference between the Taliban killing people for the sake of it, and normal people killing animals for food. If we’re taking about ‘feelings’, why should Jewish people care that the way they kill animals offends other people? Animals go through an immense amount of pain regardless. When you go to a restaurant, or takeaway, do you know exactly how the animal has been killed? Do you ask the person selling it to you how the animal was treated?
Why should they care? Simple they don’t make the laws as it isn’t a religious state.
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paul514
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(Original post by nstar12)
This isn't just 'religious feelings' anymore, they are now preventing people from practicing their religion. If animal treatment was so prioritised, why hasn't all meat slaughter been banned? Wouldn't you say it's inhumane to rear animals just to kill them for food?
It’s not pre stunned halal you can still have stunned halal.
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TommyDH
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
Breeding and raising animals for slaughter, and feeding them thousands of tonnes of fodder grown on land that could grow food for humans, is not ''basic survival''. Quite apart from being a morally bankrupt system, it's inefficient and wasteful. It's not even a staple - grains and rices and potatoes are staples. There's a reason that subsistence farmers barely get by on a diet of 90% rice. If producing meat was more efficient than producing vegetables, as you claim, then they'd be eating mostly meat. Instead, it's the richest regions of the world that eat the most meat. Meat is a luxury.
Grains, rices & potatoes aren't staples, since none of those were available to our ancestors. Whether you like it or not, animal protein is a staple. It's why the brain's 'big bang' happened. It's literally the reason for our intelligence. We're omnivores, you're never going to stop humans from being omnivores not without genetic engineering, and who knows what detrimental effect that will have on us as a species.

I workout everyday. On top of that I cycle everywhere. Try cycling 10 miles to the gym, lift weights for an hour, then cycle 10 miles back every single day like I do on some vegan soyboy diet. I'd collapse and die! I eat steak for breakfast, I eat it for dinner, I eat it for supper. I need meat several times a day. Without it I wouldn't grow and I certainly wouldn't have any energy or the nutrients needed to keep going.

This evil agenda to turn us all into effeminate vegan soyboys with girly arms isn't for me thanks you can keep it.

I've already stated though, I'm against intensive/factory farming, and believe in stun before harvest without any excuses religious or otherwise.

You have a choice, just buy grass-fed pastured like I do.
Last edited by TommyDH; 2 weeks ago
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fallen_acorns
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banning relgious slaughtering methods is a fine logical position to hold.. as long as you also ban factory farming.

You can take the position of an 'ethical' meat eater - who eats only animals who have had good lives, and been killed in the most humane way possible... its a reasonable position.

But if your going to tesco and buying factory farmed meat on the cheap, whilst saying how bad halal meat is - then really its just about wanting to stop islamic practises coming, and not about any moral regard for animal welfare..

(Which is actually fine as well - but be honest, that its about wanting to go against multiculturalism, and islamification - and don't pretend its about animal welfare)
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paul514
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
banning relgious slaughtering methods is a fine logical position to hold.. as long as you also ban factory farming.

You can take the position of an 'ethical' meat eater - who eats only animals who have had good lives, and been killed in the most humane way possible... its a reasonable position.

But if your going to tesco and buying factory farmed meat on the cheap, whilst saying how bad halal meat is - then really its just about wanting to stop islamic practises coming, and not about any moral regard for animal welfare..

(Which is actually fine as well - but be honest, that its about wanting to go against multiculturalism, and islamification - and don't pretend its about animal welfare)
I’d like to see that too much like all the supermarkets stopping selling battery eggs this year
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hazmort
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Its crazy how people are trying to defend torturing animals in the name of religion. Just cus its part of a religion doesn’t make it right. Just look islam believing its okay to stone gays and people who commit adultery
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marshallbrown
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Makes no sense.
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admonit
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(Original post by Professional G)
Then that would mean all meat eaters are hypocrites?
This touching care about the last seconds of life of animals, killed to be eaten, reminds me crocodile tears, shed while they consuming their prey.
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by TommyDH)
Grains, rices & potatoes aren't staples, since none of those were available to our ancestors. Whether you like it or not, animal protein is a staple. It's why the brain's 'big bang' happened. It's literally the reason for our intelligence. We're omnivores, you're never going to stop humans from being omnivores not without genetic engineering, and who knows what detrimental effect that will have on us as a species.

I workout everyday. On top of that I cycle everywhere. Try cycling 10 miles to the gym, lift weights for an hour, then cycle 10 miles back every single day like I do on some vegan soyboy diet. I'd collapse and die! I eat steak for breakfast, I eat it for dinner, I eat it for supper. I need meat several times a day. Without it I wouldn't grow and I certainly wouldn't have any energy or the nutrients needed to keep going.

This evil agenda to turn us all into effeminate vegan soyboys with girly arms isn't for me thanks you can keep it.

I've already stated though, I'm against intensive/factory farming, and believe in stun before harvest without any excuses religious or otherwise.

You have a choice, just buy grass-fed pastured like I do.
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For goodness' sake, educate yourself...

We have a need for protein, sure. There are plenty of sources of vegetable protein, such as beans, soy, fungus protein like Quorn, and others. It's slightly more work, but completely replaceable. If you need concentrated protein, vegetable protein powder is easy to find and there are plenty of vegan bodybuilding YouTube channels for your perusal.

How can you be so paranoid as to think we want to turn you into an effeminate girly-armed weakling? What would I, or vegans, or any particular industry have to gain from doing that?
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TommyDH
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
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For goodness' sake, educate yourself...

We have a need for protein, sure. There are plenty of sources of vegetable protein, such as beans, soy, fungus protein like Quorn, and others. It's slightly more work, but completely replaceable. If you need concentrated protein, vegetable protein powder is easy to find and there are plenty of vegan bodybuilding YouTube channels for your perusal.

How can you be so paranoid as to think we want to turn you into an effeminate girly-armed weakling? What would I, or vegans, or any particular industry have to gain from doing that?
I have educated myself, and our paleo ancestors did not eat grains (except perhaps wild grains that no longer exist), rice or potatoes. They ate meat, fish, eggs, roots and some plants. Guess what I eat? Meat, fish, eggs, roots and some plants.

We didn't evolve eating soy with hipster hats on poking our little pinkys out.

I won't be part of your evil agenda, veganism is a direct attack on men. It's designed to make us weak, malnourished and to inhibit our growth. Not to mention the detrimental effects it has on hormones, feminising men causing a whole host of issues from loneliness, singledom to depression.

Also it's out of the question for me anyway, as I said, I cycle a lot and workout everyday. Without meat I wouldn't be able to get the nutrition I need.
Last edited by TommyDH; 2 weeks ago
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