Brexit: MPs defeat government over no-deal preparations Watch

MrDystopia
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MPs have backed measures designed to thwart preparations for a no-deal Brexit, by defeating the government in the House of Commons.

They backed an amendment to the Finance Bill, which would limit spending on no-deal preparations unless authorised by Parliament, by 303 to 296 votes.

A number of Tory MPs are thought to have rebelled.

BBC Parliament @BBCParliament: What does amendment 7 do? This amendment would prevent the government implementing the “no deal” provisions in the bill without the consent of Parliament.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46803112

A very big loss for the Government, who once again are left floundering on the issue of Brexit. This motion is a significant road block for a No Deal.
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ICameForPolitics
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Mind my french, but that's bloody retarded.
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Andrew97
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Oh for goodness sake.
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Notoriety
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It somewhat weakens our hand in gaining "assurances" to say, "ahh but if you don't back a change of the deal, we'll just leave with no deal and no one wants that." All while the Commons, and Secs of State, are making it somewhat clear that no deal is not on the table.

So the threat is: "give us the requested assurances, and if you don't, I will have to take your deal anyway."

The problem with MPs is that too many of them listen to their unintelligent constituents.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by ICameForPolitics)
Mind my french, but that's bloody retarded.
Thank goodness we pay politicians handsomely to make informed decisions on our behalf that we might not like, but for our own good!
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Notoriety)
"ahh but if you don't back a change of the deal, we'll just leave with no deal and no one wants that."
That was never a bargaining chip. The EU have already stated that they couldn't care less. There is no additional negotiating to be done. The deal, is the deal. Why can't some people understand that simple concept?

As a business, if you lose one of your major clients, there are always others you can do business with. No deal is putting two fingers up to all our clients. That is bad. Thank goodness our politicians get that.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by ByEeek)
That was never a bargaining chip. The EU have already stated that they couldn't care less. There is no additional negotiating to be done. The deal, is the deal. Why can't some people understand that simple concept?

As a business, if you lose one of your major clients, there are always others you can do business with. No deal is putting two fingers up to all our clients. That is bad. Thank goodness our politicians get that.
I love how you come in with "That was never a bargaining chip" as if you're privy to the negotiations. It cleary is something contemplated by politicians or they would not be spending money on no-deal prep; your rhetoric doesn't do away with that obvious truth.

And note, this motion puts the spending for prep in the hands of MPs; it does not kill the idea of no-deal prep being funded. It just removes the force of the threat of no deal away from the negotiations and instead has the prospect as a worst case scenario from severe and exceptional negotiation blunders, which is to be avoided at all costs but concurrently is a prospect to be managed.
Last edited by Notoriety; 2 weeks ago
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viddy9
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A welcome move by MPs. This puts the ball even more firmly in the court of the House of Commons.

MPs will almost certainly vote down Mrs May’s agreement. Due to this evening’s vote, they have made it even less likely that the Government will go for a no-deal Brexit in the aftermath of their loss (not that they were likely to anyway).

This allows MPs to keep the Government tied to a chair while they huddle in the room next door and try to forge a consensus. For example, they could agree to force the Government to pursue a Norway-style Brexit. Or they might want to revoke Article 50. Or they might want to call another referendum.

In the unlikely eventuality that they cannot forge a consensus, then they will be responsible for a no-deal Brexit occurring. In which case they will approve any Government requests for preparations for no deal (which is what the Cooper amendment to the Finance Bill allows for).
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fallen_acorns
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1 step closer to remain.

(which I would take over may's deal, despite being a leaver in principle)
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paul514
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You guys know this is literally only political move and not a meaningful financial one right?
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Bulletzone
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Might get a German visa
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turquoise_badger
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Slight problem. If May's Brexit deal is miraculously voted through next week, the DUP will withdraw their support leaving her head of a minority government. This will almost certainly trigger a general election. If the deal isn't voted through, then God knows. Either way, a no-deal Brexit looks quite likely either way. Judging from the disastrous lorry 'rehearsal' in Kent, perhaps the MP's should reconsider.
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jackcade
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(Original post by viddy9)
A welcome move by MPs. This puts the ball even more firmly in the court of the House of Commons.

MPs will almost certainly vote down Mrs May’s agreement. Due to this evening’s vote, they have made it even less likely that the Government will go for a no-deal Brexit in the aftermath of their loss (not that they were likely to anyway).

This allows MPs to keep the Government tied to a chair while they huddle in the room next door and try to forge a consensus. For example, they could agree to force the Government to pursue a Norway-style Brexit. Or they might want to revoke Article 50. Or they might want to call another referendum.

In the unlikely eventuality that they cannot forge a consensus, then they will be responsible for a no-deal Brexit occurring. In which case they will approve any Government requests for preparations for no deal (which is what the Cooper amendment to the Finance Bill allows for).
That is a very optimistic assessment and I think what is happening here is much more cynical.

There are only two practical alternatives: no deal and the deal. If MPs have a majority opposed to no deal, they should simply vote by majority to endorse the deal. Since the deal is also the policy of the government, there is no dispute with the government here and no need to pressure the government.

The reality is that this is not the Commons pressuring the government but rather pro-deal MPs using the government as a proxy to pressure anti-deal MPs. This is happening precisely because there is no consensus for any positive action. The intention is to reduce the probability of the default outcome occurring by making the consequences of a default outcome worse. This is playing chicken with the country and the individuals concerned are willing to do it primarily because they do not expect to be personally blamed if the gambit fails.
Last edited by jackcade; 2 weeks ago
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zhog
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(Original post by jackcade)
That is a very optimistic assessment and I think what is happening here is much more cynical.

There are only two practical alternatives: no deal and the deal. If MPs have a majority opposed to no deal, they should simply vote by majority to endorse the deal. Since the deal is also the policy of the government, there is no dispute with the government here and no need to pressure the government.
Agreed, it would look like a matter of national interest for them to vote for the deal on the table. Alas...
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zhog
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
1 step closer to remain.
That's all it is. That's the whole idea, rather.
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zhog
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Behind the Brexit front, this could be a signal of positioning by Cooper within the party structure. With the party in the hands of the far-left, the feminist clique is the only obvious contender for a challenge and within the barren landscape they have Cooper, who is not only a Remainer but also a Blairite. Maybe a bit of self-promotion here, it may raise eyebrows at the Politburo.

The EU and Remainers committed to overturning the referendum result are bluffing with the backstop issue, Brussels don't want a hard border any more than the UK and the Irish do. It is used as an instrument to keep us in at will, it is only the lack of political determination and consensus in the House to implement Brexit that is keeping our lives on hold. Second or lower rate most of them, were Thatcher or even Trump in charge and we might finally get somewhere. In saying that, politicians reflect the character of their nations everywhere democratic.
Last edited by zhog; 2 weeks ago
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