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    So in your Foundation Year you have a rotation, do they usually rotate you to places close to where you live or can they be far? If they're far can you ask for something closer considering you live far?
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    The foundation programme is made of two years, FY1 and FY2. Each year has 3x 4 month rotations, so 6 rotations in total.

    When you apply for the foundation programme, you apply for a pre-defined geographical area called a deanery. Some deaneries such as London are more competitive, others such as those in the north of England are often less competitive. Deaneries are allocated according to your foundation score, so with a lower score you might not be able to get in to a more competitive deanery, and may get a 2nd / 3rd / lower choice of geographical area.

    The 3 rotations in a single foundation year will generally be in a similar geographical area - often at the same hospital, or different hospitals in the same Trust, often with a community rotation in a similar geographical area. Once again, having been allocated a deanery, you then have to rank all the programmes within that deanery according to preference. People with highest scores are allocated first, so in a deanery with a large geographical area, if you have a low score it's possible to end up with a year programme in a different part of the deanery to the one you wanted.

    Some deaneries will allocate FY1 and FY2 programmes at the same time, and some will allocate FY2 competitively during FY1. Some deaneries will have rules eg I believe in most London deaneries you can't do bboth FY1 and FY2 in central London, one year might be in London but the other will bbe in a much more peripheral area. There will be some places where you might be able to do both FY1 and FY2 in the same hospital / community area, and other place where you'll be in two very different areas within your deanery. In honesty, I think working in different hospitals is a good thing as you get a feel for how different places do things.

    Unfortunately, once you have been allocated, that is that. Some deaneries might allow doctors to swap rotations if another doctor is willing, but many do not, and generally, unless you are in the rare situation of wanting a very unpopular area, but rely on being able to swap. Realistically, the powers that be do not care in the slightest where you live. You'll be expected to move if necessary. That might sound bleak, but in reality, most people get the deanery that they want, and don't get sent a million miles from where they want to be.

    Throughout training, you'll find some people who've managed to never move at all, and others who've fallen foul of the moving lottery at every hurdle and have moved every year for several consecutive years. In my 7 years of NHS practice, I had to move between FY1 and FY2, and then for a couple of my specialty rotations I've rented a room so I can live out near the hospital for part of the week because they've bbeen much further away.

    So in short, no, they don;t take into account at all where you live, but with a reasonabble score and reasonable expectations regarding geography (Ie not wanting 100% central London), most people aren't too disappointed. For Foundation, you should be abble to at least spend a whole year at a time in one place, and many people manage to spend 2 years in a similar pace without moving - although you might have to move to go there in the first place. Remember many people choose to move away for a new experience - not always a negative thing!
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    To add to/emphasise aspects of the extensive reply above:

    This kind of rotation pattern also continues beyond FY2 and right up until you are a consultant. For FY you are quite likely to get roughly where you want - 77% get their first preference and 95% get one of their top 5 preferences - but if applying for a competitive training speciality afterwards there may well be a much higher expectation on you to move across the country for your job. Regular moves and long commutes, sometimes very long commutes, are a routine part of medicine unfortunately.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...7tQR-jOj49Wc7r

    This is the price to pay for the high prize of having a guaranteed job on graduation - you become part of this huge, unmoveable leviathan that is the NHS and you have limited control of where that job will be and what that job will even be. There are plenty of ways the NHS could improve the job allocation process, enable job swaps, or even just stop the hospital rotation process as is absolutely normal in most other parts of the world, but they really really don't care about you and will not lift a finger to help you if they don't have to. About the only circumstances where you can strong-arm them into changing the job for you is if you are the carer for someone and can't move for that reason.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    To add to/emphasise aspects of the extensive reply above:

    This kind of rotation pattern also continues beyond FY2 and right up until you are a consultant. For FY you are quite likely to get roughly where you want - 77% get their first preference and 95% get one of their top 5 preferences - but if applying for a competitive training speciality afterwards there may well be a much higher expectation on you to move across the country for your job. Regular moves and long commutes, sometimes very long commutes, are a routine part of medicine unfortunately.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...7tQR-jOj49Wc7r

    This is the price to pay for the high prize of having a guaranteed job on graduation - you become part of this huge, unmoveable leviathan that is the NHS and you have limited control of where that job will be and what that job will even be. There are plenty of ways the NHS could improve the job allocation process, enable job swaps, or even just stop the hospital rotation process as is absolutely normal in most other parts of the world, but they really really don't care about you and will not lift a finger to help you if they don't have to. About the only circumstances where you can strong-arm them into changing the job for you is if you are the carer for someone and can't move for that reason.
    Thank you for the info! That was what I was worried about, my mum is going to be at home by herself so I wouldn't be able to rent a flat somewhere because she would be alone. Otherwise I don't mind the intense commute with a train, as long as it isn't like 3 hours away. Are you in the process right now? or have you finished your speciality?
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    (Original post by junior.doctor)
    The foundation programme is made of two years, FY1 and FY2. Each year has 3x 4 month rotations, so 6 rotations in total.

    When you apply for the foundation programme, you apply for a pre-defined geographical area called a deanery. Some deaneries such as London are more competitive, others such as those in the north of England are often less competitive. Deaneries are allocated according to your foundation score, so with a lower score you might not be able to get in to a more competitive deanery, and may get a 2nd / 3rd / lower choice of geographical area.

    The 3 rotations in a single foundation year will generally be in a similar geographical area - often at the same hospital, or different hospitals in the same Trust, often with a community rotation in a similar geographical area. Once again, having been allocated a deanery, you then have to rank all the programmes within that deanery according to preference. People with highest scores are allocated first, so in a deanery with a large geographical area, if you have a low score it's possible to end up with a year programme in a different part of the deanery to the one you wanted.

    Some deaneries will allocate FY1 and FY2 programmes at the same time, and some will allocate FY2 competitively during FY1. Some deaneries will have rules eg I believe in most London deaneries you can't do bboth FY1 and FY2 in central London, one year might be in London but the other will bbe in a much more peripheral area. There will be some places where you might be able to do both FY1 and FY2 in the same hospital / community area, and other place where you'll be in two very different areas within your deanery. In honesty, I think working in different hospitals is a good thing as you get a feel for how different places do things.

    Unfortunately, once you have been allocated, that is that. Some deaneries might allow doctors to swap rotations if another doctor is willing, but many do not, and generally, unless you are in the rare situation of wanting a very unpopular area, but rely on being able to swap. Realistically, the powers that be do not care in the slightest where you live. You'll be expected to move if necessary. That might sound bleak, but in reality, most people get the deanery that they want, and don't get sent a million miles from where they want to be.

    Throughout training, you'll find some people who've managed to never move at all, and others who've fallen foul of the moving lottery at every hurdle and have moved every year for several consecutive years. In my 7 years of NHS practice, I had to move between FY1 and FY2, and then for a couple of my specialty rotations I've rented a room so I can live out near the hospital for part of the week because they've bbeen much further away.

    So in short, no, they don;t take into account at all where you live, but with a reasonabble score and reasonable expectations regarding geography (Ie not wanting 100% central London), most people aren't too disappointed. For Foundation, you should be abble to at least spend a whole year at a time in one place, and many people manage to spend 2 years in a similar pace without moving - although you might have to move to go there in the first place. Remember many people choose to move away for a new experience - not always a negative thing!
    Thank you so much for an thorough explanation! it was exactly what I needed. I understand the competitiveness like I don't mind having to travel to central London all the time or even like an hour or two away but it's stuff that would require me to rent a place. It's not renting the place that is the problem but I have to take care of my mum who I can't leave by herself. Sorry to ask but do you think you could explain to me each year of the medical degree so Year 1 - 5?
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    (Original post by Alec.A)
    Thank you for the info! That was what I was worried about, my mum is going to be at home by herself so I wouldn't be able to rent a flat somewhere because she would be alone. Otherwise I don't mind the intense commute with a train, as long as it isn't like 3 hours away. Are you in the process right now? or have you finished your speciality?
    As @nexttime said, after FY things you will continue to move around the country.

    If you choose to specialise in niche specialties e.g. neurosurgery, then the hospitals in your rotation will be relatively far away from each other. For example in Yorkshire, the 3 hospitals with neurosurgery are Sheffield, Leeds and Hull. You will be expected to be at each of the hospitals for at least a year.

    Conversely, for specialties that are bigger (but more common) the distance are shorter (in populated areas! In the Scottish Higlands even the next hospital could be hundreds of miles away), such as Orthopaedics being in most acute hospitals.

    Remember on the other hand, training in London means that even for niche specialties you don't have to travel far. Everything should be within the M25 and even if not it wouldn't be far away. But then of course it's more competitive.

    :goodluck:
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    (Original post by ecolier)
    As @nexttime said, after FY things you will continue to move around the country.

    If you choose to specialise in niche specialties e.g. neurosurgery, then the hospitals in your rotation will be relatively far away from each other. For example in Yorkshire, the 3 hospitals with neurosurgery are Sheffield, Leeds and Hull. You will be expected to be at each of the hospitals for at least a year.

    Conversely, for specialties that are bigger (but more common) the distance are shorter (in populated areas! In the Scottish Higlands even the next hospital could be hundreds of miles away), such as Orthopaedics being in most acute hospitals.

    Remember on the other hand, training in London means that even for niche specialties you don't have to travel far. Everything should be within the M25 and even if not it wouldn't be far away. But then of course it's more competitive.

    :goodluck:
    Thank you so much! This definitely reassures me about choosing this industry. Like I love the field but the destination was starting to worry me. I guess living in London actually has a positive now haha thanks again!
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    (Original post by Alec.A)
    Thank you so much! This definitely reassures me about choosing this industry. Like I love the field but the destination was starting to worry me. I guess living in London actually has a positive now haha thanks again!
    But remember, the competition is always higher in London whatever specialty (including Foundation Training).

    On the flipside, you do get paid a paltry, borderline insulting London supplement if you work there. (It's about £2162 per year, after 40% tax it's like £100 per month)
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    (Original post by Alec.A)
    Thank you so much for an thorough explanation! it was exactly what I needed. I understand the competitiveness like I don't mind having to travel to central London all the time or even like an hour or two away but it's stuff that would require me to rent a place. It's not renting the place that is the problem but I have to take care of my mum who I can't leave by herself. Sorry to ask but do you think you could explain to me each year of the medical degree so Year 1 - 5?
    There is loads of information out there about medical school structure - have a read through the forum, and read a few universities' prospectuses! You don't need me to type it out for you There will be some variation between universities, but it's generally 2 years of preclinical study that's university based, and 3 years of clinical placesments that are predominantly hospital based.

    Realistically, as others have said, you are going to have to rent somewhere at some point during your training once you're qualified.
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    (Original post by Alec.A)
    Thank you so much! This definitely reassures me about choosing this industry. Like I love the field but the destination was starting to worry me. I guess living in London actually has a positive now haha thanks again!
    Well I mean... not really? As per the link - the minimum score which got into North London last year was 84, much higher than 3rd place Oxford and vastly higher than anywhere else. South London is easier, but South London includes Brighton and all of the South East coast!

    33.33% of last year's graduates had scores good enough to get into one of the two North London deaneries last year. So you'd need to be in the top third to get in - no easy feat at all. And if you did just scrape in, remember that will leave you with absolutely no choice of job - you would want to be higher than that if you had any desire to experience a certain speciality.

    Also a 2 hour each way commute will be soul destroying. You'd be waking at 6am every day and not getting back until 7 at the very earliest - there will be plenty of days when it would be much later. An 8am-9pm long day shift would become 5am waking returning at 11-11:30pm. Pretty unpleasant.
 
 
 
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