Veganism, a serious take Watch

Yakib
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I've been on TSR for a while now and though I've not been active for a while, I've still seen my fair share of trollish Vegan posts. Thus, I don't blame the majority of you for seeing Veganism in a more humorous manner rather than an argumentative one. However, despite the rather frivolous display of Veganism that's constantly been perpetuated here, there is a more disputable ethical side to Veganism. Which begs the question, do you guys have any valid ethical objections towards Veganism?
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james.clk
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I refuse to take militant veganism/vegan suffragettes seriously.
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Yakib
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(Original post by james.clk)
I refuse to take militant veganism/vegan suffragettes seriously.
Ok, but that doesn't answer my question: do you guys have any valid ethical objections towards VEGANISM, not vegans.
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JustOneMoreThing
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Nope, as long as they’re not preaching about it I’m neutral
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Yakib
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(Original post by TheNamesBond.)
Nope, as long as they’re not preaching about it I’m neutral
Do you eat animal products? If so, then why?
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JustOneMoreThing
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(Original post by Yakib)
Do you eat animal products? If so, then why?
This is exactly what I was talking about
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by TheNamesBond.)
This is exactly what I was talking about
Those seem like neutral, non-judgmental, non-aggressive questions to me. If they offend you, you may be what they call a ''snowflake''.
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Lilli22
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I feel that it is morally right for one to comply with veganism only because of the ethical complications behind it.

It's beneficial for multiple reasons, such as how:
(1) the decrease in demand for animal products will result in less death and suffering of animals
(2) the decrease in demand for animal products will result in lower amounts of methane and such produced by livestock to join the atmosphere
(3) eating less meat is generally healthier for humans, though it is still important to incorporate necessary vitamins, etc, into a diet

Though, despite this, I am not vegan. This is solely because I enjoy eating foods such as meat and cheese, though sometimes I will try to swap mince for soy, etc.

The main thing that I am sure aggravates others, as well as myself, is how obnoxious some militant vegans can be. They are in your face and their ethical reasons for veganism are almost demolished as they preach their way of life to be special; as if veganism determines what sort of person one is. Yes, it is good to go vegan, but the person is not always perfect. Many people are going vegan simply because it's "popular" and may be guilted into it.

There is also the viewpoint that, in the natural world, this would not be a problem. We would eat what we could to survive, even if it meant the extinction of a species. Now, as most of us in the Western world can access what food we like whenever we want, it is much more taboo as we eat recreationally.
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Acsel
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I have no ethical objections to killing animals for food. I may not necessarily agree with the vegan ethical viewpoint on not killing animals, but I can understand where the point of view comes from.

But naturally, it's not that sample. Most people don't eat meat products because of ethical concerns. They eat meat because it tastes good, that's how they're brought up, it's their best option, etc. The moment you asked someone why they eat animal products, you stopped this being about ethics. Because bacon tasting good is not related to whether it's ethically alright to kill a pig.

The ethical discussion of whether it's acceptable to kill animals for food can be had, without once bringing up veganism. "The ethics" and "being vegan" are totally independent issues. You want to focus on purely the ethical issue but have bundled it up in a vegan discussion, so naturally this thread is unlikely to go where you want. If you wanted to discuss ethics, you'd have been better off not mentioning vegans to begin with. Because whether someone is vegan or not is a far more complicated discussion than how they feel ethically.
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TommyDH
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The problem I have with vegans is how neurotic and effeminate/irrational they are, also they're like Jehovah witnesses. "Excuse me sir do you have a moment to talk about how vegan I am?". They make me want to eat more meat just to spite them.

But seriously. Vegans don't have a monopoly on animal welfare. I buy 100% grass-fed beef. The animals I eat roam the Yorkshire moors 100% freely living natural lives. I disagree with factory farms.

Also Bison populations are booming, even here in the UK. Not long ago the bison was an extremely endangered species that was on its way out into extinction. Did vegans bring them back? Nope. They'd have happily seen them disappear. It's us, meat-eaters, that brought them back. Thanks to a boom in bison steak, the bison themself are booming. Same with deer, woodpigeon, pheasant.

Infact, many species of animals would go extinct if everybody became a soyboy.

But mostly, because we're omnivores and need meat and I reject the vegan agenda to feminize men.
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Yakib
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(Original post by TommyDH)
The problem I have with vegans is how neurotic and effeminate/irrational they are, also they're like Jehovah witnesses. "Excuse me sir do you have a moment to talk about how vegan I am?". They make me want to eat more meat just to spite them.

But seriously. Vegans don't have a monopoly on animal welfare. I buy 100% grass-fed beef. The animals I eat roam the Yorkshire moors 100% freely living natural lives. I disagree with factory farms.

Also Bison populations are booming, even here in the UK. Not long ago the bison was an extremely endangered species that was on its way out into extinction. Did vegans bring them back? Nope. They'd have happily seen them disappear. It's us, meat-eaters, that brought them back. Thanks to a boom in bison steak, the bison themself are booming. Same with deer, woodpigeon, pheasant.

Infact, many species of animals would go extinct if everybody became a soyboy.

But mostly, because we're omnivores and need meat and I reject the vegan agenda to feminize men.
I didn't spot any ethical objection to veganism here....
But even so, your claim that 'we need meat' is silly. Why do we need meat? People can live on a vegan diet and get every essential nutrient.
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JustOneMoreThing
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
Those seem like neutral, non-judgmental, non-aggressive questions to me. If they offend you, you may be what they call a ''snowflake''.
Forgive me but you seem awfully offended by my response, might want to use that wide eyed perception towards yourself
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Gent2324
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(Original post by TommyDH)
The problem I have with vegans is how neurotic and effeminate/irrational they are, also they're like Jehovah witnesses. "Excuse me sir do you have a moment to talk about how vegan I am?". They make me want to eat more meat just to spite them.

But seriously. Vegans don't have a monopoly on animal welfare. I buy 100% grass-fed beef. The animals I eat roam the Yorkshire moors 100% freely living natural lives. I disagree with factory farms.

Also Bison populations are booming, even here in the UK. Not long ago the bison was an extremely endangered species that was on its way out into extinction. Did vegans bring them back? Nope. They'd have happily seen them disappear. It's us, meat-eaters, that brought them back. Thanks to a boom in bison steak, the bison themself are booming. Same with deer, woodpigeon, pheasant.

Infact, many species of animals would go extinct if everybody became a soyboy.

But mostly, because we're omnivores and need meat and I reject the vegan agenda to feminize men.
wtf are u talking about....
you are trying to say that meat eaters brought back a species, despite supporting the death of others and eating them?
and the fact that you use a random biased news article instead of factual research shows you dont really know what youre talking about. please dont make claims about things that you dont understand.
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username1562597
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(Original post by TommyDH)

Infact, many species of animals would go extinct if everybody became a soyboy.

But mostly, because we're omnivores and need meat and I reject the vegan agenda to feminize men.
the myth that soy lowers testosterone has been debunked.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5188409/

"In regard to possible mechanisms, since neither soy intake nor isoflavone exposure affects testosterone levels in men, effects on this hormone are not a possible explanation for the proposed protective effects of soy against prostate cancer [283]."
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Moments
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(Original post by Yakib)
I've been on TSR for a while now and though I've not been active for a while, I've still seen my fair share of trollish Vegan posts. Thus, I don't blame the majority of you for seeing Veganism in a more humorous manner rather than an argumentative one. However, despite the rather frivolous display of Veganism that's constantly been perpetuated here, there is a more disputable ethical side to Veganism. Which begs the question, do you guys have any valid ethical objections towards Veganism?
Overwhelmingly practical objections here.

Ethically, shutting the entire meat AND animal product industry and putting people out of work is not something I condone. Some of these family businesses have been going for over 100 years. That's in the developed world where they might be able to recover ...... If you can look a third world farmer in the eye and tell him he cannot sell milk from his 20 cows anymore and that he simply "has to find something else to do" then i applaud you, but (having been to some of these places) I object to it.
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Gent2324
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(Original post by TheNamesBond.)
Forgive me but you seem awfully offended by my response, might want to use that wide eyed perception towards yourself
they have a point though.
it sounds like he asked a question which you cant answer and you dont want to admit it lol
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TommyDH
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(Original post by Yakib)
I didn't spot any ethical objection to veganism here....
But even so, your claim that 'we need meat' is silly. Why do we need meat? People can live on a vegan diet and get every essential nutrient.
I literally told you. Because we're omnivores. We do need meat. If it wasn't for meat you wouldn't even be alive today, or you would but you'd still be some primitive monkeyman swinging around in trees. If we didn't eat meat we'd be herbivores, not omnivores. But since we're omnivores, we need meat. Just like we need vegetables. If we didn't need vegetables, we'd be carnivores, but we're not. We're omnivores. Therefore we need meat, fish, eggs, roots, vegetables, fruit. Which is what I eat as I believe in a healthy natural diet.

I was vegetarian for 3 years and I looked like an anorexic cancer patient. I also started becoming a bit of a snowflake, and it was then I came across the evil agenda to feminize men.

Also why are you lying? I did state an ethical objection, the extinction of animals. Also the girlification of men is a pretty damn ethical objection.

I don't want to be a weak girly armed soyboy, sorry. I go to the gym everyday, so I need to eat steak.

I need vitamin b12. Where else in nature is this?
I need creatine. Especially after workouts. Where else in nature do I get this, except my big lovely juicy bison steak?
I need carsonine, vitamin D3, DHA, heme-iron (being anemic) and to a lesser extent taurine.

I need all this to stay healthy and to keep growing muscle.
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username1562597
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i would be interested in learning more about veganism for a muscle building diet. what are good sources of vegan protein that has the same amount of protein per gram as meat or chicken?
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TommyDH
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(Original post by Gent2324)
wtf are u talking about....
you are trying to say that meat eaters brought back a species, despite supporting the death of others and eating them?
and the fact that you use a random biased news article instead of factual research shows you dont really know what youre talking about. please dont make claims about things that you dont understand.
Uh, it's called facts darling.
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TommyDH
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(Original post by ltsmith)
i would be interested in learning more about veganism for a muscle building diet. what are good sources of vegan protein that has the same amount of protein per gram as meat or chicken?
None, unless you eat processed food (which I can't) and legumes (which I can't) or soy which turns you into a girl (so I won't, plus it's a legume anyway so I can't) and GMO grains (which I can't).

Even if I didn't mind becoming transgender a vegan diet is literally impossible for me. I can only eat natural foods that our paleo ancestors may have eaten.
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