The 'Brexit Meaningful Vote' Thread - May loses 432-202 Watch

Dez
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Why do we need a second referendum?
See my post above. What other way is there out of this mess?
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user7121
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#22
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#22
We need to stay it would be terrible for the country if Brexit came to pass. Staying in the EU is the best option for all. Plus, what I don't understand is, why weren't 16 & 17 year olds allowed to vote in it because I am not being funny but it is their future that it has an impact on. Why did the older generation get a say when they aren't going to be around for much longer. I genuinely hope that the MP'S vote against it and then hopefully she will leave and we will get a new Prime Minister because she is failing and dragging the country down with her.
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Gofre
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#23
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#23
I genuinely don't know what's going to happen after today's vote fails, besides Theresa May's plan B just being plan A printed in a slightly different font. I would hope that she doesn't drive us off a cliff edge by pressing on with no-deal and instead offer the second referendum, but considering the damage this is going to do with the few remaining tatters of her legacy I wouldn't be surprised if she simply stops caring and takes us all down with her.
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Toki the Dumdum
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#24
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#24
(Original post by user7121)
We need to stay it would be terrible for the country if Brexit came to pass. Staying in the EU is the best option for all. Plus, what I don't understand is, why weren't 16 & 17 year olds allowed to vote in it because I am not being funny but it is their future that it has an impact on. Why did the older generation get a say when they aren't going to be around for much longer. I genuinely hope that the MP'S vote against it and then hopefully she will leave and we will get a new Prime Minister because she is failing and dragging the country down with her.
You cannot go down the path of "those who it most affects should be the opinions that matter". Brexit will affect everyone below 18, not just 16 and 17 year olds, but we're not going to have primary school kids voting. The line has to be drawn somewhere. And you cannot discount parts of the population just because they're more likely to die sooner than others are. We're not going to start stopping heavy drinkers or morbidly obese people from voting even though they're, as a group, statistically going to die sooner than healthier people.
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user7121
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Gofre)
I wouldn't be surprised if she simply stops caring and takes us all down with her.
Agreed
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Burton Bridge
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Dez)
See my post above. What other way is there out of this mess?
I need to understand why you think no deal is ridiculous. You simply cannot enter a negotiation when you give your opponent all the ace cards.

I understand your point that our government doesn't have a plan B, they really have made a total mess of a great opportunity. However what would having another referendum achieve realistically? What do you think will change as if by magic? We will still be in the exact same position no matter what the outcome, even in remain win. Neither side will win by a landslide, what are we going to gain apart from a bit bit more national debt?

We need to be instructing our servants (key word) to act in our interests, what's stopping us having a trade deal with the United States of America as opposed to the ever increasing united States of Europe.
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Gofre
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
We will still be in the exact same position no matter what the outcome, even in remain win.
The whole point is that if remain wins we would remain in the EU, which would be a drastically better position to be in than our current trajectory.
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Dez
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I need to understand why you think no deal is ridiculous. You simply cannot enter a negotiation when you give your opponent all the ace cards.
The majority of the public do not back no deal, and this is also reflected in Westminster. There is no mandate for it. No deal would be a complete disaster for UK trade, the economy, and just day-to-day living. It has practically no upsides whatsoever and could in the worst case scenarios trigger a global recession. It's barking mad to suggest we should totally abandon our biggest trading partner and replace them with diddly squat.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I understand your point that our government doesn't have a plan B, they really have made a total mess of a great opportunity. However what would having another referendum achieve realistically? What do you think will change as if by magic? We will still be in the exact same position no matter what the outcome, even in remain win. Neither side will win by a landslide, what are we going to gain apart from a bit bit more national debt?
If the referendum clarifies the available options a bit better, it may give a stronger mandate. Trouble is a plebicite would have to be massively over-simplified by its very nature, so you may well be right that it'd just lead to more bickering and no meaningful progress. Believe me when I say I do not look forward to another referendum on this. But again, what's the alternative?

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
We need to be instructing our servants (key word) to act in our interests, what's stopping us having a trade deal with the United States of America as opposed to the ever increasing united States of Europe.
May's deal is not in our interests. No deal Brexit isn't in anyone's interest. Any deal with the US would take years to resolve, and we have about 8 weeks left. It's not gonna happen.
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harrykirkwood123
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#29
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I don't want it to seem like I am having a rant but my view is simple:

Brexit is a fraud, a deception that will hurt most of the people it promised to help. Brexit was a campaign won on false promises and lies. Vote Leave and Leave EU both broke the law and by now every single campaign promise made in 2016 has become unstuck. Brexit will not enrich our NHS – it will impoverish it. Brexit was based upon lies. Why is it the people who campaigned so hard to leave have now gone silent with their political careers? Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson… All the money they promised to the NHS will be paid to LEAVE the EU. If we really wanted this money to stay in the NHS we would have held our ground and stayed in the EU, not left. We should be blaming Westminster for our mistakes. Not Brussels.

Based on the promises made in the 2016 campaign, I can see why people would have wanted to vote leave, and had all of those promises been fulfilled then leaving the EU would have been justified, but what faces us is not the Brexit people voted for. A people's vote is in my opinion, the best way forward.
Last edited by harrykirkwood123; 1 month ago
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StriderHort
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I need to understand why you think no deal is ridiculous. You simply cannot enter a negotiation when you give your opponent all the ace cards.
What Ace cards do we have? by looks of it we've got a pair of 3's and a card promising 'sensual massage' we found in a phonebox, we nationally suck hard.
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AsalaR.
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#31
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#31
(Original post by MrDystopia)
So it's January 15th, which means that the Meaningful Vote is finally upon us after it's delay from Mid-December.

As I'm sure everyone is aware, Theresa May is widely expected to lose this vote, triggering yet more uncertainty for the nation. There's even talk of her losing by a record margin for a Government of the UK. Should she lose by at least 167 votes or more, then she'll have managed that feat.

Thereafter, as mandated by previous votes, Theresa May will have 3 days to come up with 'Plan B', and bring that to the house. As far as what that entails, no one knows. And it does seem like neither does the public. Sir John Curtice penned a great article looking at the various options: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46735713

Most striking is the following graph showing just how divided we've become. Which option would you go for?




So with that said, it's on to the Meaningful Vote, to see what unfolds.

You can watch on ParliamentTV: http://parliamentlive.tv/Commons

You can also watch on BBC Parliament: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/guide/...ament/20190114

The debate/vote are expected in the afternoon/evening.

Any questions, feel free to ask
I do not agree with a vote because it's a slippery slope. What stops people from changing their mind again after the second vote?!
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Plantagenet Crown
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#32
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#32
Hopefully this spells the end for Brexit :woo:
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Plantagenet Crown
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#33
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#33
(Original post by user7121)
We need to stay it would be terrible for the country if Brexit came to pass. Staying in the EU is the best option for all. Plus, what I don't understand is, why weren't 16 & 17 year olds allowed to vote in it because I am not being funny but it is their future that it has an impact on. Why did the older generation get a say when they aren't going to be around for much longer. I genuinely hope that the MP'S vote against it and then hopefully she will leave and we will get a new Prime Minister because she is failing and dragging the country down with her.
Mrs May voted Remain so I suspect she’d be internally very pleased and delighted if Brexit ultimately failed.
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TheFirstGecko
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#34
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#34
Hoping for a General Election. Nice change of pace from Brexit and Labour could gain a few more seats if they play their cards right.
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MrDystopia
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#35
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#35
Oh side note since I forgot the timings, debate is scheduled for 12:50 - 18:30, and the vote is expected at 7pm tonight
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StriderHort
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
Mrs May voted Remain so I suspect she’d be internally very pleased and delighted if Brexit ultimately failed.
I feel that could be a false positive. I don't feel May is a remainer, she just followed her record of voting to cause general trouble/death and by sheer coincidence that meant voting remain, still a Tory Grand Vizer at end of day. (She's happy to see anyone fail)
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Davij038
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#37
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
leave is fine
remain is fine

but this middle option that takes the worst of both and throws them together is not.
Strongly Agreed.
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HucktheForde
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#38
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#38
brexit in a nut shell

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Davij038
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#39
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#39
Hoping for:
- a massive defeat for May in the government, swiftly followed by mays resignation:
-a stitch up conservative leadership election where they put in someone terrible like Gove or Hunt,
-call another general election where both parties tank votes to Ukip but where Corbyn wins a small majority
- Corbyn popular economic polices get sidelined for various reasons
-ineffective/ terrible social policies at home create rising resentment on top of other scandals
- yet another general election, UKIP becomes the king maker
- Tories enter into coalition with either labour or UKIP
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the bear
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Dez)
I don't see what damage a second referendum would do that hasn't been done already.
the first referendum was offered to the people as the definitive choice of in or out. the decision ( tragically flawed and influenced by ahem non-UK players ) was made. end of.

the deeply unappealing Brexiteers won the vote according to the rules so we should just get on with the wretched process of leaving.

no doubt we shall soon be paying £2 a litre for petrol & there will be a thriving black market for Camembert.

fml.
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