Fayeeeee
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#1
We should have another referendum
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ColinDent
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#2
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#2
(Original post by Fayeeeee)
We should have another referendum
No problem with that but only after we have left and brexit has been given a fair chance, about 40 years would be sufficient.
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sachinihimara
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#3
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Completely agree.
People voted for an idealistic brexit. Not the impractical mess it has turned it to be. The public was misinformed and blindly led by blind politicians into a leave vote. As much as democracy needs to be upheld, there is nothing undemocratic about letting the public have another say given how much new information has come to light.
Sure the people voted yes, but if someone makes a decision to try something, then realises there are more issues than initially expected, less benefits and its is significantly less feasible than they thought; whilst also having more unwanted consequences than when they made the choice to do it - forcing them to go through with what now seems like a poor choice just because they initially thought it was a good idea is not democratic, its idiotic.
Last edited by sachinihimara; 9 months ago
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sachinihimara
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#4
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(Original post by ColinDent)
No problem with that but only after we have left and brexit has been given a fair chance, about 40 years would be sufficient.
Even hypothetically there would only be a sucessful second referendum in 40 years if brexit is unsuccessful and we need the support again. As if the EU is going to be waiting there with open arms to pick up the pieces.
Why not let the people vote again now given there is so much animosity towards the current proposed deals and without voting again how can we be sure that going through with it now is not undemocratic given the large percentage of people who have changed their viewpoint? I'd personally guess that a significant majority would be against brexit given the mess it has become.
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ColinDent
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#5
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(Original post by sachinihimara)
Even hypothetically there would only be a sucessful second referendum in 40 years if brexit is unsuccessful and we need the support again. As if the EU is going to be waiting there with open arms to pick up the pieces.
Why not let the people vote again now given there is so much animosity towards the current proposed deals and without voting again how can we be sure that going through with it now is not undemocratic given the large percentage of people who have changed their viewpoint? I'd personally guess that a significant majority would be against brexit given the mess it has become.
Because we still haven't enacted the first one
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mojojojo101
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#6
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#6
(Original post by sachinihimara)
Completely agree.
People voted for an idealistic brexit. Not the impractical mess it has turned it to be. The public was misinformed and blindly led by blind politicians into a leave vote. As much as democracy needs to be upheld, there is nothing undemocratic about letting the public have another say given how much new information has come to light.
Sure the people voted yes, but if someone makes a decision to try something, then realises there are more issues than initially expected, less benefits and its is significantly less feasible than they thought; whilst also having more unwanted consequences than when they made the choice to do it - forcing them to go through with what now seems like a poor choice just because they initially thought it was a good idea is not democratic, its idiotic.
Every election is fought of misinformation, lies, outright cheating and deliberately misleading voters. The Brexit referwndum was not special, it wasn't difference, it is just a fact of elections in a liberal, capitalist democracy.
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GalGirl101
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#7
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I would like one but it's undemocratic I suppose if we have another vote because the first vote sucked
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TommyDH
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#8
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#8
(Original post by Fayeeeee)
We should have another referendum
And then another, then another, then another, then another, then another until people vote the way you want them to vote?

I think they have a name for countries like that.
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username1738683
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#9
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#9
Just out of curiosity, is anyone calling for a referendum a Leave voter who has changed his/her mind?
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BlueStripedTiger
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#10
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(Original post by zhog)
Just out of curiosity, is anyone calling for a referendum a Leave voter who has changed his/her mind?
Yeah, I voted leave. Since then, I’ve seen the mess that Brexit is and the process we’ve followed and would love to be given the chance to vote again. I’ve also since studied EU law and realised the amount of lies and misinformation given by the leave side. I’ve also noticed the amount of facts that the remain side decided were irrelevant. A lot of family members voted the same and would vote otherwise given the vote again.
I’m watching the events in the Commons very closely to see what’s going to happen!
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username1738683
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#11
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(Original post by BlueStripedTiger)
Yeah, I voted leave. Since then, I’ve seen the mess that Brexit is and the process we’ve followed and would love to be given the chance to vote again. I’ve also since studied EU law and realised the amount of lies and misinformation given by the leave side. I’ve also noticed the amount of facts that the remain side decided were irrelevant. A lot of family members voted the same and would vote otherwise given the vote again.
I’m watching the events in the Commons very closely to see what’s going to happen!
Good to hear, there has to be some basis to form a case. I know there are examples of the opposite too, Remainers cheesed off by the whole thing. I didn't vote, so I'm out.
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nulli tertius
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#12
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#12
(Original post by mojojojo101)
Every election is fought of misinformation, lies, outright cheating and deliberately misleading voters. The Brexit referwndum was not special, it wasn't difference, it is just a fact of elections in a liberal, capitalist democracy.
I beg to differ.

Elections are full of “political” lies; unprovable insults about the opponents and unprovable assertions about one’s own past or future policies.

The 2016 Referendum was the first time the Big Lie came to British politics. The Big Lie is an untrue factual statement, which if contested, is still asserted to be true.

It wasn’t present in the Scottish Indyref. That is why Salmond got in such a mess over the currency. If he had used the tactics of 2016, he would simply have lied and when called out over those lies, repeated them. He could have said the British government and BofE agreed his plan for using the pound and when Cameron denied this, Salmond could simply have repeated the lie.

Before 2016 British elections had always been conducted against a background of fact. When Thatcher’s poster said “Labour isn’t Working” in 1979 both Thatcher and Callaghan accepted the background fact, contained in official statistics, that unemployment had risen. What if Callaghan had simply simply said “fake news”, “Tory Lies”. Thousands of Labour activists would have backed anything he said. How do you win a political campaign where one side simply denies the factual accuracy of every criticism made of them?

I think what happened in 2016 was due to both sides being led by men who shared a posh boys’ code of honour from a particular time and place that differed from accepted standards of behaviour in the wider community. Provided their actions complied with that code (and Gove’s lie to Cameron broke it) they could otherwise lie their heads off to the public.
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sachinihimara
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#13
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#13
(Original post by mojojojo101)
Every election is fought of misinformation, lies, outright cheating and deliberately misleading voters. The Brexit referwndum was not special, it wasn't difference, it is just a fact of elections in a liberal, capitalist democracy.
And not having a second referendum helps how exactly?
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hello_shawn
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#14
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It's not the people's fault that their government can't do what they were voted in to do. Enough years of life should pass for the commoner to then eventually realise the opposition can't be trusted to do any better.
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ColinDent
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#15
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#15
(Original post by BlueStripedTiger)
Yeah, I voted leave. Since then, I’ve seen the mess that Brexit is and the process we’ve followed and would love to be given the chance to vote again. I’ve also since studied EU law and realised the amount of lies and misinformation given by the leave side. I’ve also noticed the amount of facts that the remain side decided were irrelevant. A lot of family members voted the same and would vote otherwise given the vote again.
I’m watching the events in the Commons very closely to see what’s going to happen!
Or so you say, there is a whole lot of misinformation around at the moment of course.
Not saying you're lying but there is of course no way of proving your statement, sounds like a very remainery one though ;-)
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ColinDent
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#16
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#16
(Original post by hello_shawn)
It's not the people's fault that their government can't do what they were voted in to do. Enough years of life should pass for the commoner to then eventually realise the opposition can't be trusted to do any better.
It's also not the people's fault that parliament as a whole wants to frustrate the decision and has wilfully done so thus causing the current mess.
Parliament is not representative of the population when it comes to brexit.
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Kim~Shawn Mendes
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#17
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#17
(Original post by Fayeeeee)
We should have another referendum
of course we should i think that people didn't really understand the referendum that much i think it was a mistake. i wanted to take instead of leave
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BenK64
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#18
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Absolutely not. There’s been a fear-mongering campaign by the remain side that we will be in some sort of apocalypse scenario when we leave.

Also I don’t see how people are any more informed now then they were in 2016. We still haven’t even fulfilled the choice of the first referendum and left, so we still don’t know how exactly it will turn out. The vast majority of people haven’t read the details of Mays deal and also don’t understand the repercussions of a no deal. All the information most of us get is from the media, which is just as bias an inaccurate, if not more, than in 2016. Most people don’t know about politics, hence why we have ‘specialists’ who represent us and should make decisions for us. The first referendum shouldn’t of happened, but a second one won’t be any better or more ‘informed’.

Also nothing has changed about the main desire to leave. Control over our own laws and not in the hands of unelected Belgian bureaucrats. The UK are not the only country with large anti-eu population. In fact most EU countries do. Look briefly into french German Italian etc politics and you’ll see that the grass isn’t greener on the other side. The UK are just ahead of the game, others countries will follow suit.

It’s a shame May is so utterly inept. But she will be gone, sooner rather than later, and negotiations and trade deals will be made. We will be just Fine without the EU
Last edited by BenK64; 9 months ago
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Kim~Shawn Mendes
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#19
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the only problem with a second referendum the european union might not want to give us a deal so we would be left in sinders, which we are trying to avoid
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