Young vs elderly voting preference Watch

Burton Bridge
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Reading another thread on this forum has got me thinking. In particular this quote from a member

'And you asked this on a student forum where the majority are youngsters. We already know that the young mostly voted remain'

It is the young whom have the least life experience and are the most likely to be neive vs the elderly whom have greater life experience and in some cases have actually lived and worked in a Britian with no EU membership.

Scary when you put it like that
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 weeks ago
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Dez
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Life experience isn't just a matter of age. Ask yourself, who has more life experience: a 30-something who is bilingual, has travelled and worked in 3 different countries, or a 70-something who worked in a factory for 50 years, collected a pension then retired to do fudge-all? Which of those two do you think is more likely to be well-informed when it comes to EU membership? Which has the most to gain or lose from Brexit?
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Neilos
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(Original post by Dez)
Life experience isn't just a matter of age. Ask yourself, who has more life experience: a 30-something who is bilingual, has travelled and worked in 3 different countries, or a 70-something who worked in a factory for 50 years, collected a pension then retired to do fudge-all? Which of those two do you think is more likely to be well-informed when it comes to EU membership? Which has the most to gain or lose from Brexit?
I'd go with... the 70-year-old for life experience, whichever one paid more attention to the world for knowing more about EU membership (coin-toss - could be either), and the 30-something for more to lose or gain.
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Burton Bridge
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I should of added the words 'on average' apologies
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random_matt
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Damn, i'm popular, lol.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by random_matt)
Damn, i'm popular, lol.
Lol
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by Dez)
Life experience isn't just a matter of age. Ask yourself, who has more life experience: a 30-something who is bilingual, has travelled and worked in 3 different countries, or a 70-something who worked in a factory for 50 years, collected a pension then retired to do fudge-all? Which of those two do you think is more likely to be well-informed when it comes to EU membership? Which has the most to gain or lose from Brexit?
Which of those two do you think is more likely to be well-informed when it comes to EU membership?
Its easy to forget living in well educated bubbles how many young people have utterly no interest in politics.

- When surveyed 31% of 25-34 year olds claimed to have no interest in politics, compared with only 21% of 65+.

- Knowledge of politics, when tested.. again came out at 37% of 25-34 year olds having a reasonable knowledge, compared with 66% of 65-75s

(Young people don't actually know more about politics and current affairs, just think they do.. just like at 15 teenagers think they know better then their parents at X/Y.. its a common trait of the young, but one you should have grown out of by now)



On average, my money is on the 70 year old.
for your other points:
Bilingual doesn't have anything to do with levels experience

90% of chinese 18 year olds I see every day are bassically bilingual dispite having basically no life experiance at all.

but sure, it is possible to find a very experienced 30 year old, who has more life experience then a very sheltered 70 year old.

Its irrelevant to the point though because on average, most 70 year olds will have more life experience then most 30 year olds. they may not have the trendy travel experiances of gap-year kids who have cycled through 10 countries, and spent a few months in Thailand.

On average they have:
A longer-range of experience in witnessing how situations develop and how the worlds change
They have experienced more wars.. and may have (if we get to 80+) lived through some
They have experienced life before the digital revolution
They have witnessed countless governments come and go
They have witnessed multiple recessions and boom periods
Most will have experience raising a child all the way from birth to adulthood, many will have experience having grandchildren
They have countless years more experience in problem solving, negotiating, fixing relationships, etc.

---

who has the most to loose? Young people.. but they also have the most to gain, so its a moot point. Its never been a good argument against the involvement of old people.. the ethical ramifications of ranking how much people have to loose/gain by political decisions, and using that in any practical way to weigh votes, are awful.

---

I think you fall into the trap of not being able to see out of your own world view, and your own priorities, which are very youth-centric. So in terms of what you perceive value in.. language, travel, international experiences etc. Yes - young people have a great deal of experience. But really thats just a tiny part of life-experiance, and vastly outweighed by the experienced gained from raising a family and being responsible for a large and growing number of others outside of yourself.

The whole 'exception to the rule so the rule is disproved' is also irrelevant. Its as stupid as someone saying 'men are more physically strong then women.. so physical sex matters when it comes to determining strength' and you saying 'yes.. but some women are stronger then some men'... sure its true, just some 30 year olds have more experiance then some 70 year olds.. but their existance doesn't disprove the statement 'on average the older you are the more experiance you have' or 'on average 70 year olds have more experiance then 30 year olds. (we just dropped the 'on average' part in normal speach because its presumed)
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Bang Outta Order
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most of the country's young voted remain..??


or are most of the people who voted remain young?

two different things...
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Dez
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
The 70 year old is more likely to be well-informed when it comes to EU membership?
Its easy to forget living in well educated bubbles how many young people have utterly no interest in politics.

- When surveyed 31% of 25-34 year olds claimed to have no interest in politics, compared with only 21% of 65+.

- Knowledge of politics, when tested.. again came out at 37% of 25-34 year olds having a reasonable knowledge, compared with 66% of 65-75s

(Young people don't actually know more about politics and current affairs, just think they do.. just like at 15 teenagers think they know better then their parents at X/Y.. its a common trait of the young, but one you should have grown out of by now)



On average, my money is on the 70 year old.
for your other points:
Bilingual doesn't have anything to do with levels experience

90% of chinese 18 year olds I see every day are bassically bilingual dispite having basically no life experiance at all.

but sure, it is possible to find a very experienced 30 year old, who has more life experience then a very sheltered 70 year old.

Its irrelevant to the point though because on average, most 70 year olds will have more life experience then most 30 year olds. they may not have the trendy travel experiances of gap-year kids who have cycled through 10 countries, and spent a few months in Thailand.

On average they have:
A longer-range of experience in witnessing how situations develop and how the worlds change
They have experienced more wars.. and may have (if we get to 80+) lived through some
They have experienced life before the digital revolution
They have witnessed countless governments come and go
They have witnessed multiple recessions and boom periods
Most will have experience raising a child all the way from birth to adulthood, many will have experience having grandchildren
They have countless years more experience in problem solving, negotiating, fixing relationships, etc.

---

who has the most to loose? Young people.. but they also have the most to gain, so its a moot point. Its never been a good argument against the involvement of old people.. the ethical ramifications of ranking how much people have to loose/gain by political decisions, and using that in any practical way to weigh votes, are awful.

---

I think you fall into the trap of not being able to see out of your own world view, and your own priorities, which are very youth-centric. So in terms of what you perceive value in.. language, travel, international experiences etc. Yes - young people have a great deal of experience. But really thats just a tiny part of life-experiance, and vastly outweighed by the experienced gained from raising a family and being responsible for a large and growing number of others outside of yourself.
You're assuming that everyone being surveyed actually voted, though. The elderly always beat the younger generations in terms of voter turnout, and if you solely looked at people who actually bothered to vote my guess would be that they might end up showing similar levels of knowledge and experience. Again, age is just a number. It's entirely possible for a 30-year-old to be more well-informed about politics than the average 70-year-old, and vice-versa.
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ByEeek
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I know a lot of ignorant old farts and a lot of bright ambitious young people. And the reverse. But either way, the older generation will not be around in 30 years time and won't have to deal with the fallout of the decisions they are making today.
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by Dez)
Life experience isn't just a matter of age. Ask yourself, who has more life experience: a 30-something who is bilingual, has travelled and worked in 3 different countries, or a 70-something who worked in a factory for 50 years, collected a pension then retired to do fudge-all? Which of those two do you think is more likely to be well-informed when it comes to EU membership? Which has the most to gain or lose from Brexit?
The 70 year old. How does being able to ask for a beer in three different languages even come close to challenging 50 years work in a typically working class job in Britain, experiencing non-EU and EU British life, having adapting to numerous changes in governments and policy?
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ColinDent
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I know a lot of ignorant old farts and a lot of bright ambitious young people. And the reverse. But either way, the older generation will not be around in 30 years time and won't have to deal with the fallout of the decisions they are making today.
Given that the turnout amongst over 65's was 90% and 36% of those voted to remain it is very likely that more people of that age range actually voted to remain than in the under 25 one so I'm not sure what your beef is.
I also know that as you grow older a great many of you will become more cynical as you come to realise that the world is not some great ideological utopia but actually people in power, from whatever political background or organisation, are more than happy to **** on you from a great height in order to line their own pockets, we're all just pawns in their game, this will cause your opinion to change.
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paul514
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I know a lot of ignorant old farts and a lot of bright ambitious young people. And the reverse. But either way, the older generation will not be around in 30 years time and won't have to deal with the fallout of the decisions they are making today.
The same goes for ANY decision then.

Voter cut off at 50?

Perhaps we should get rid of all the over 50’s in politics? That’s one way to get rid of the Lords 🙄

Do you realise how ridiculous your arguments are?
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nulli tertius
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I rather despair of this thread and its stereotypes.

Knowledge of people grows with age. That is why older people are generally less naïve about politics. They have met more liars and chancers.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be. Older people are more liable to make comparisons with the past. If the past isn't comparable, that puts older people in a false position. Post-Brexit life in Britain will be in no way comparable with pre-EEC Britain, and yet lots of people are saying that that we managed before and therefore we will manage again. Whether we make a success of Brexit will have nothing to do with how life was in 1945-73 a highly unionised cash economy dependant on manufacturing industry mostly exporting to the former empire.

There is a woeful under-estimation of the importance of being in the economy for decision making; and that affects both the very young and the retired. Children, students and pensioners are almost entirely gaining their knowledge of the economy and society second-hand. Working age people are almost always gaining it first hand. Furthermore, the economy impacts on working age people to a much greater degree.
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ThomH97
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Old people will generally have more life experience. But so what? Their hopes, dreams and ambitions for their future are lower than those of the young, mostly because they've had the opportunity to achieve those things already and now just want to consolidate what they have. To let that sort of reasoning alone decide our future is foolish. You want a balance of trying new things, and keeping what you have, and the need for each of those things is reflected in the diversity of the electorate.

Perhaps there's an argument for changing the minimum age, but not just with the argument that people have more experience.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by ThomH97)
Old people will generally have more life experience. But so what? Their hopes, dreams and ambitions for their future are lower than those of the young, mostly because they've had the opportunity to achieve those things already and now just want to consolidate what they have. To let that sort of reasoning alone decide our future is foolish. You want a balance of trying new things, and keeping what you have, and the need for each of those things is reflected in the diversity of the electorate.

Perhaps there's an argument for changing the minimum age, but not just with the argument that people have more experience.
You really cannot see just how privileged your life has been can you? Do you realise what the older generation that you are so willing to put down had to do to get where they are now, could you cope with rationing or 15% inflation, grow up and be respectful of everyone's right to have a say in our country's future.
Rules regarding voting have been the same for many years now and we have all at some point been on the wrong end of what we thought was right.
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ThomH97
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(Original post by ColinDent)
You really cannot see just how privileged your life has been can you? Do you realise what the older generation that you are so willing to put down had to do to get where they are now, could you cope with rationing or 15% inflation, grow up and be respectful of everyone's right to have a say in our country's future.
Rules regarding voting have been the same for many years now and we have all at some point been on the wrong end of what we thought was right.
Did you quote the wrong person or horrendously misread mine?
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ColinDent
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
I rather despair of this thread and its stereotypes.

Knowledge of people grows with age. That is why older people are generally less naïve about politics. They have met more liars and chancers.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be. Older people are more liable to make comparisons with the past. If the past isn't comparable, that puts older people in a false position. Post-Brexit life in Britain will be in no way comparable with pre-EEC Britain, and yet lots of people are saying that that we managed before and therefore we will manage again. Whether we make a success of Brexit will have nothing to do with how life was in 1945-73 a highly unionised cash economy dependant on manufacturing industry mostly exporting to the former empire.

There is a woeful under-estimation of the importance of being in the economy for decision making; and that affects both the very young and the retired. Children, students and pensioners are almost entirely gaining their knowledge of the economy and society second-hand. Working age people are almost always gaining it first hand. Furthermore, the economy impacts on working age people to a much greater degree.
Life expectancy dictates more though.
We were struggling pre EEC due to the huge debt we ran up defeating the Nazis but the EEC was sold to the general public as a lovely trading bloc and not a politcal entity, I don't think there's anyone that would have a problem with the idea of a trading bloc but we simply do not wish to be governed in any way by beaurocrats who have not been elected and cannot be removed.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by ThomH97)
Did you quote the wrong person or horrendously misread mine?
Nope, try rereading what you wrote.
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ThomH97
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Nope, try rereading what you wrote.
I guess it's the latter then. You seem quite ageist too.
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