Stupid leave voters on question time with their stupid analogies for "no deal"... Watch

Burton Bridge
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#41
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(Original post by winterscoming)
So now a strawman too. Yes this is getting tedious. Good day!.
Oh stop it mate your getting better

Strawman an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

OK .. Stupid leave voters on question time with their stupid analogies for "no deal"...

I don't think I've edited the topic and I'm pretty sure that's calling anyone whom disagrees stupid, to which you are defending.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 weeks ago
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winterscoming
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#42
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Oh stop it mate your getting better

Strawman an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

OK .. Stupid leave voters on question time with their stupid analogies for "no deal"...

I don't think I've edited the topic and I'm pretty sure that's calling anyone whom disagrees stupid, to which you are defending.
Heh, you really are clutching at straws here, but OK then. Why don't you point out exactly where you believe I have defended the topic, or where I have defended calling anybody stupid?

Or is it the case that you are suggesting the fact that I disagreed with you means that I am somehow defending the OP or the title of this thread? If so, then you have incredibly managed to hit upon yet another fallacy which is 'non-sequitur'.

Either way, it is not all that surprising for someone who believes that "the good old days" is a valid argument against detailed analysis of empyrical evidence. I'd rather recommend educating yourself on logic and reasoning
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DSutch
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We will be economically worse off leaving the EU. With a deal, the harm can be minimised, without one it will be worse. It will not be people on six figure sums a year that will suffer, it will be those on low incomes.

If we had been as good at negotiating as the EU and actually knew what we wanted, then perhaps a reasonable deal could have been achieved.
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DJKL
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#44
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(Original post by Daigan)
I hope we get a no-deal brexit. The people most disadvantaged by that would be be those who voted to leave, and I can't wait to laugh at their plight. I'll be okay. I work in an industry that will be pretty much immune to brexit.
Not sure there is such a beast, there are industries not in the direct line of fire but they could be impacted by spin off effects within the economy.-butterfly wings.
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DJKL
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#45
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Oh so it's fine to belittle anyone who disagrees with you.

Could I just put forward somthing to you, these large businesses leaders, the ones with huge off shore tax avoiding bank accounts. You know the ones that close factories down in the UK to build in Poland for cheaper running costs while keeping the price of their products the same while selling them to the neighbourhoods they have destroyed. Those guys whom push branding onto us and close local small businesses down whom actually spend money locally simulating the economy. Do you not think it is possible they just might have some biast and a little political motivation behind their claims?

Or am I just stupid ignorant fool to think this? I mean it's not like these people gift millions to politicians to push their agendas on to us. I don't know whom or what I was thinking to question the far superior intelligent of a few young people on a forum, they obviously know far more about life previous to the EEC than the people whom actually lived in those times.

Silly me eh..
It is SMEs who are directly in the firing line of a No Deal, not larger business enterprises, depth of pockets and liquidity will determine the business survivors and SMEs traditionally carry low levels of liquid resources, in the event of business disruption it is being able to continue operating through the upheaval that is the key to success, running out of funding marks game over.

You can make the political arguments about larger companies if it makes you happy but in a global economy, when companies operating in the UK earn only a fraction of their profits within the UK, it seems to be a strand of excepionalism to believe that these business decisions re location are merely personal and political, whilst the political dynamic may come into play re future stability and the long term, the idea that personal beliefs re the UK political system impact location decisions that will be made by multinationals is risible, what does impact is market access, workforce and costs, and trade friction, however dressed, is a cost, supply interuption is a cost.

For the record, I am not a young person, I am a rapidly ageing person, I run a business, but not a large business, my role, running that business , is seeking the goals of continuity, prosperity and reducing the risks it faces, my decisions reflect these concerns and very little else. (My duty to the owners of said business, the employees of said business and its suppliers being addressed re the goals sought)
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Burton Bridge
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#46
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(Original post by winterscoming)
Heh, you really are clutching at straws here, but OK then. Why don't you point out exactly where you believe I have defended the topic, or where I have defended calling anybody stupid?

Or is it the case that you are suggesting the fact that I disagreed with you means that I am somehow defending the OP or the title of this thread? If so, then you have incredibly managed to hit upon yet another fallacy which is 'non-sequitur'.

Either way, it is not all that surprising for someone who believes that "the good old days" is a valid argument against detailed analysis of empyrical evidence. I'd rather recommend educating yourself on logic and reasoning


#26 was my post you disagreed with, in this post I was simply pointing out that labelling people whom you disagree with as stupid is bigoted. Then dived further pointing out the young vs old voting preferences on the subject. In post #28 you highlighted my post and called anyone whom disagreed with you 'arrogant and stupid' since then you have inplyed I'm uneducated and some rubbish about the good old days, I've never said.

I was going to throw you a life line by asking you if you comdem the OP's veiw points but after read your comments and you simply don't deserve one.

Let me give you a life tip for free, if you are educated and life brings you into debate with someone of lesser interlect than yourself, try using your superior knowledge to defeat their argument and maybe change their mind. If you have to resort to condescending belittlememt then it shows the onlooker whom you really are.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by DJKL)
It is SMEs who are directly in the firing line of a No Deal, not larger business enterprises, depth of pockets and liquidity will determine the business survivors and SMEs traditionally carry low levels of liquid resources, in the event of business disruption it is being able to continue operating through the upheaval that is the key to success, running out of funding marks game over.

You can make the political arguments about larger companies if it makes you happy but in a global economy, when companies operating in the UK earn only a fraction of their profits within the UK, it seems to be a strand of excepionalism to believe that these business decisions re location are merely personal and political, whilst the political dynamic may come into play re future stability and the long term, the idea that personal beliefs re the UK political system impact location decisions that will be made by multinationals is risible, what does impact is market access, workforce and costs, and trade friction, however dressed, is a cost, supply interuption is a cost.

For the record, I am not a young person, I am a rapidly ageing person, I run a business, but not a large business, my role, running that business , is seeking the goals of continuity, prosperity and reducing the risks it faces, my decisions reflect these concerns and very little else. (My duty to the owners of said business, the employees of said business and its suppliers being addressed re the goals sought)
Great post with some good insight.

Some trades are at greater risk than others, I too am a rapidly ageing man whom does not run a business but runs a department within one, at present we are making plans to cope with the worst case scenario, it is not the easiest task because nobody actually knows what is going to happen at present which provides a valid reason why free markets do not like uncertainty.

However this said I do not feel this is a valid reason to not leave. People seem to speak like every expert economist is pro remain and this simply is not the case.

Good luck in your life and business and I hope when ever we get the light at the end of the tunnel we all proposer
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jameswhughes
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#48
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(Original post by Azeee)
Leave voter analogy:

When you walk into a car dealership and don't like the car, you need to be able to walk away. You need to be able to say "no deal". This has to be on the table otherwise you end up with a bad deal.

Actual analogy:

We already owned a car. Some would describe it as a Ferrari. Others would describe it as a Ford Fiesta. However, we had a car.

Regardless of what you think of the car, we set fire to it, and now we need to buy another one.

A deal involves getting a car. No deal involves having no car at all. Have fun walking everywhere when you could have been driving.
___

Bonus leave voter comment: "The EU is scared of no deal! We need it on the table to frighten them into giving us what we want."

Reality: The EU have actually been preparing for a no deal scenario for at least a year (they've written up proposals and everything). While they obviously want a deal, they're not naive like you lot.
___

If you're fine with a no deal scenario, good for you, but don't pretend like it doesn't mean certain economic instability that will hit the pockets of the poorest first (the rich will diversify their funds abroad and come out just fine). And shame on you for advocating for it if you do.
Surely you should be asking whether the deal or no deal is more prestigious?
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DJKL
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#49
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Great post with some good insight.

Some trades are at greater risk than others, I too am a rapidly ageing man whom does not run a business but runs a department within one, at present we are making plans to cope with the worst case scenario, it is not the easiest task because nobody actually knows what is going to happen at present which provides a valid reason why free markets do not like uncertainty.

However this said I do not feel this is a valid reason to not leave. People seem to speak like every expert economist is pro remain and this simply is not the case.

Good luck in your life and business and I hope when ever we get the light at the end of the tunnel we all proposer
Not all, but most by number (I cannot judge expert/non expert as I am not an expert) view leaving as a cost, at least in the shorter term ,5-10-15-20 year, outlook.

This makes economic sense, any barriers to trade tend to make overall trade reduce, and as trade is predicated on comparative advantage then overall world output reduces and economies tend to become more inefficient.

I can recognise the UK economy does not work for everyone but selecting Brexit as the cure is not obvious as the most logical choice re the issue, the chances of Brexit improving the lot of those left behind in the UK looks pretty limited from my perspective, replacing trade with higher GDP per capita countries to trade with countries with lower GDP per capita to help those at the bottom of UK wages seems perverse logic.

This is all not going to have a happy ending when promises, or even perceptions of promises, are broken, a No Deal Brexit will never deliver its anticipated bounty and not leaving will not give a chance for that to be demonstrated, the whole thing boils down to the Sex Pistols,
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
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ColinDent
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(Original post by DJKL)
Not all, but most by number (I cannot judge expert/non expert as I am not an expert) view leaving as a cost, at least in the shorter term ,5-10-15-20 year, outlook.

This makes economic sense, any barriers to trade tend to make overall trade reduce, and as trade is predicated on comparative advantage then overall world output reduces and economies tend to become more inefficient.

I can recognise the UK economy does not work for everyone but selecting Brexit as the cure is not obvious as the most logical choice re the issue, the chances of Brexit improving the lot of those left behind in the UK looks pretty limited from my perspective, replacing trade with higher GDP per capita countries to trade with countries with lower GDP per capita to help those at the bottom of UK wages seems perverse logic.

This is all not going to have a happy ending when promises, or even perceptions of promises, are broken, a No Deal Brexit will never deliver its anticipated bounty and not leaving will not give a chance for that to be demonstrated, the whole thing boils down to the Sex Pistols,
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"


Yes by parliament for deliberately fooking up the whole thing.
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by ColinDent)
[/b]

Yes by parliament for deliberately fooking up the whole thing.
'It's not that I am stupid or made a bad decison, it's that a secretive cabal undermining the true cause from behind the curtain. If only it wasn't for all these remainers/immigrants/muslims/sjw's/feminists/black people/cultural marxists/jews would leave me alone everything would be beautiful and all would be well in the world'
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Rayman,,.
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Okay.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
'It's not that I am stupid or made a bad decison, it's that a secretive cabal undermining the true cause from behind the curtain. If only it wasn't for all these remainers/immigrants/muslims/sjw's/feminists/black people/cultural marxists/jews would leave me alone everything would be beautiful and all would be well in the world'
Do you deny that there's a large portion of parliament that wish to remain in the EU that has been deliberately trying to tie the government's hand, it's hardly a secret cabal.
The rest is just an extremely stereotypical rant, proof of your prejudice I'm afraid.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
'It's not that I am stupid or made a bad decison, it's that a secretive cabal undermining the true cause from behind the curtain. If only it wasn't for all these remainers/immigrants/muslims/sjw's/feminists/black people/cultural marxists/jews would leave me alone everything would be beautiful and all would be well in the world'
Bingo anther bigoted remainer.

Fortunately the more you guys speak the more you highlight to the world the status quo you claim to be true of leavers is actually a smoke and mirror campaign to divert attention away from your own prejudices. That's twice in one thread now, you can at least rest assured you on not on your own
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ByEeek
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(Original post by ColinDent)
[/b]

Yes by parliament for deliberately fooking up the whole thing.
Absolutely. What you are seeing in Parliament is democracy in action. If you want to live in a dictatorial society, choose Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia or Russia. There, if you support the government - happy days. Otherwise, your life is at risk.

The people have spoken. But thankfully, we have a system of democracy that looks out for everyone, not just those who were in the winning team. So no, you are not going to get what you want. But only in the same way that no one is going to get what they want either. What we are going to get in the end is a compromise. And if you don't like that, like I say - feel free to choose your dictatorial country to live in but make sure you unashamedly support the government in everything they do whether you like it or not.
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