Manufacturers jobs are leaving the Uk

If you think that you can make a European Union which keeps manufacturing jobs and makes everyone happy, why don't you try making it and joining it then?

How about a start up motor company backed by the government, which we would be allowed to do outside of the EU, one that specialises in electric/hybrid cars using the expertise that is already in this country and using a UK wide supply chain.
And forget equivalence of standards, how about bettering EU standards, Corbyn would love it.
I know that some of you don't like this sort of rational thinking because we couldn't possibly do this kind of thing without our EU overlords telling us how we should act but there are a whole world of possibilities out there and this is the time to grab them, we just need to find the right people to govern after we've left, and no I don't mean Corbyn.
Oh and we don't have to stop at just cars, it just takes some forward thinking minds.

I will agree with that if you agree that, with the Greek, Irish and other budget crises of the last few years and the decline of British manufacturing that we're adding 'The illusion of' in front of 'Economic stability' as well.

So, I guess in agreement of that, the argument for the vote was 'The illusion of economic stability vs the illusion of national sovereignty'.

How about a start up motor company backed by the government, which we would be allowed to do outside of the EU, one that specialises in electric/hybrid cars using the expertise that is already in this country and using a UK wide supply chain.
And forget equivalence of standards, how about bettering EU standards, Corbyn would love it.
I know that some of you don't like this sort of rational thinking because we couldn't possibly do this kind of thing without our EU overlords telling us how we should act but there are a whole world of possibilities out there and this is the time to grab them, we just need to find the right people to govern after we've left, and no I don't mean Corbyn.
Oh and we don't have to stop at just cars, it just takes some forward thinking minds.

OK the diastorious Thatcher government regulated everything but deregulated education. This regulation which was reinforced and shaped by her successors of both colours removed economic studies from the education of everyone bar the wealthy, they still teach it in private schools whom don't have to follow the regulation!

I mention this because I think this is key as to why people are increasing in debt and are unaware of certain factors like tangible taxpayers and intangible taxpayers.

It's a entire book to explain fully in real short terms I'll try before I go to work.

Take a restaurant owner who serves a Mr Smith a meal. The restaurant owner talleys up his takings at the end of last week that he's made from his hard work, it totals a figure and then the tax man comes and takes a section of that which he pays in tax. This makes money for the intangible money for the treasury. The Treasury then pays out money to various public services including Mr smiths wage. Mr Smith then goes to the restaurant and buys a meal with a section of his wage that was the restaurant owners is in the first place! Result The restaurant and the economy have lost money.

I've got to go now but that explains a liitle why services make no money, however I'll come to high tech industries later. It obviously gets much more technical than that but I'm out of time

What do you mean "try making it" and "joining it then"?
The people voted to leave so the UK will leave on the 29th of March, and I said why don't we try to make a deal in Brexit which keeps manufacturing jobs and keeps everyone happy.

Everyone who thinks in this thread that this isn't a direct result of brexit is kidding themselves.

Care to elucidate?

I didn't mean that "all" of them were manufacturing things that people didn't want to buy - but many of them were - e.g. typewriters, sewing machines, old telephones, etc.

The reality is that the majority of manufacturing jobs 'lost' were down to a combination of evolving technology and globalisation far beyond just the EU. Economies do not get the option of standing still and clinging on to the past - just as many jobs of 2019 will eventually be replaced by even more automation, self-driving cars, AI, etc. The EU will become a direct competitor to the UK for massive amounts of investment in these technologies; companies faced with a choice between investing in a market which has 500-million potential clients, users and customers in the EU27 and many more in the other 60 countries is a far more obvious investment target compared with one which has barriers up.



I agree that we are a service industry bound economy, but I don't see your argument about those making no money - service industries clearly make absolutely vast amounts of money, as is clear from the fact that banks alone generate 70bn every year for the UK treasury just in corporation tax.

Services and particularly financial services generate huge amounts of money owing to the fact that the total amount of money in the global economy naturally increases over time (except in a global recession like the 2008 crash) - the money which really matters doesn't actually physically exist anywhere; Instead it exists on balance sheets which are in constant flux, but those tend to grow most of the time, meaning that the total amount of 'money' circulating the economy naturally increases all the time, and the taxable profit comes from that growth. (and balance sheets don't need to be physically backed up by any real assets; they're based on value assigned to them by the financial markets, so it's not a zero-sum game).

Then there are the other industries I mentioned - tech companies in particular are highly likely to be the ones dominating the global economy this century, but those are also the ones who will have a very easy time choosing to move jobs and investment to whichever country best suits them.

Care to elucidate?

He more than likely can't

Companies like JLR are creating jobs in countries such as Slovakia (which funnily enough is in the EU). Why is this? Minimum wage is lower? Better conditions? Possibly in some cases, but more likely because Slovakia is a country which is going nowhere. JLR, for example will face no uncertainty over tariffs etc to EU countries, which if they remained in the UK, would certainly be effected by not just importing materials in, but exporting materials out. This is very much simplified down, but my point still stands. Which company in its right mind is going to continue production in a country that has not only shot itself in the foot, but its face and everywhere else. It is a matter of time before Nissan do exactly the same in Sunderland, and quite frankly it'll serve those people right in that constituency who quite unbelievably voted to leave in their masses.

I cannot believe anyone who thinks that somehow we will be better off with WTO rules and tariffs rather than those we currently have under EU regulations, which are none. Trade is the major reason that we should stay in the EU, and always will be. We are completely cocking ourselves up economy wise, and its because of people like you, and the idiot I've also quoted who cannot understand basic economics.

See above. Delightful insight into how people who aren't economically challenged think!

no.

So the reason manufacturers are leaving after Brexit is because of Brexit. Between 1973 and 2005, Britain lost 60% of its manufacturing jobs.

That was after Britain joined the EEC, which would become the EU. Can you explain why you think the continuation of losses that have been occurring for decades is somehow related to an event that is extremely recent?

So the reason manufacturers are leaving after Brexit is because of Brexit. Between 1973 and 2005, Britain lost 60% of its manufacturing jobs.

That was after Britain joined the EEC, which would become the EU. Can you explain why you think the continuation of losses that have been occurring for decades is somehow related to an event that is extremely recent?

Companies like JLR are creating jobs in countries such as Slovakia (which funnily enough is in the EU). Why is this? Minimum wage is lower? Better conditions? Possibly in some cases, but more likely because Slovakia is a country which is going nowhere. JLR, for example will face no uncertainty over tariffs etc to EU countries, which if they remained in the UK, would certainly be effected by not just importing materials in, but exporting materials out. This is very much simplified down, but my point still stands. Which company in its right mind is going to continue production in a country that has not only shot itself in the foot, but its face and everywhere else. It is a matter of time before Nissan do exactly the same in Sunderland, and quite frankly it'll serve those people right in that constituency who quite unbelievably voted to leave in their masses.

I cannot believe anyone who thinks that somehow we will be better off with WTO rules and tariffs rather than those we currently have under EU regulations, which are none. Trade is the major reason that we should stay in the EU, and always will be. We are completely cocking ourselves up economy wise, and its because of people like you, and the idiot I've also quoted who cannot understand basic economics.

See above. Delightful insight into how people who aren't economically challenged think!

Hi mate economically challenged idiot at your service should be a walk in the park for you this eh?

You seem to think that being a member of the European Union is the way forward, even though membership of it has not brought any benefits as other members have pointed out?
Basic economics tell us this, let's say I'm making a phone, thatoldguy lives in Derby and he make plastic cases, VinnyC lives in Leicester and he makes glass screens, ColinDent lives in Nottingham and he makes batteries, you are run a localised logistical transport business we all use and I make high tech chips, boards and build the phones and sell them on the internet to whomever. All the money and business stops within the UK and boosts the economy and all make tangible profits, even you as a service industry. Now when you change that to that old guy lives in Germany, VinnyC in Japan, you run a huge multi national logistics company and I am part of a global company with a base in Nottingham all of a sudden lots and lots of that money leaves the shores of the UK and does not make money for the UK economy.

Futhermoore when the EU start to spread their wings and start to involve poorer nations the problem excelerates, also I use the words excellerate because Between 1973 and 2005, Britain lost 60% of its manufacturing jobs so the problem was already alive and well.

Just to confirm before I fully reply. You are assuming that we in this country have all the skills necessary to fully produce what you're suggesting? Would you not need a multinational company or two to help with that? Oh wait, they're being driven away! Incredible.

Sorry, just to add further to this to back up my point. A fantastic example is the steel industry. For years, while we have a pedigree in steel making, we could not simply compete with the cheap Chinese steel. However, we still have two advantages, one is that Chinese steel will always be seen as cheap, therefore we have the advantage of being seen as the better product, albeit a small advantage. The second is the tariff free trading within the EU, so countries inside the EU can get our 'better' steel at a similar price, perhaps a small bit more than than the 'cheap' Chinese steel. That being said, plants are still threatened, the government has to intervene but we carry on regardless producing decent quality steel which is just about competitive. Then Brexit happens. All of my previous argument above is now worthless. Tariff heavy prices, so much so that we cannot compete with even other EU countries. It is all but an example of one business, however it's fair to say that Brexit is the final nail in our steel industry. Again give it 5 years or so but if we leave, steel will not be manufactured in this country anymore.

So direct tax consumers, public servants, MP's, MEPs, coucilers, road sweepers etc. These people are accepted as a cost to the tax payer and are branded 'the public sector' by modern terms.

The private sector works for itself, it generates money from scratch and makes tangible money for the country. That's the theory but hidden away in this group are sub genre's I speak of mainly from service industries, these are secondary tax consumers.

Now to trouble the waters even within those groups there are sub genras which operate under the illusion of 'private sector' although many are not private in real terms. For example private cleaning companies cleaning government buildings, cafes working for the NHS, private construction companies building projects like the NET the network in Nottingham, all service industries bringing payed fir directly out of our taxes. All these are direct tax consumers which have been veiled so the authorities can create false figures to claim that the private sector is growing.

Now then comes the service industries like cafes, pubs, restaurants, nail bars, hairdressers,, health clubs, posh cocktails bars and opera houses, etc. These service industries are still tax consumers because they don't generate a tangible products, their real term tax contributions depend on the make up of their customer bases income sauce in the wider economy. This is what the Mr Smith story was trying to get accross but it was a poor attempt.

Next comes the service industries that do make the largest contribution to the economy, you could argue these companies make a tangible contribution to the economy, they are banking, insurances companies etc. However these still depend on the wider economic situations, if the majority of their income is from direct and indirect tax consumers then they make little if their customer base is more manufacturing or even overseas then they do.

Then we have the bread and butter of all wealthy and healthy economies manufacturing, that does have to be traditional nuts and bolt, greesey labour intensive manufacturing, but it has to build a product from grass roots and sell it for a premium. Be it a high tech software system, computer, mobile phone, plane, train, car, even a paperclip whatever it is it makes money.

That's a short and very very brief outline of a subject of immense depth but it's better than I managed this morning I hope it helps

Companies like JLR are creating jobs in countries such as Slovakia (which funnily enough is in the EU). Why is this? Minimum wage is lower? Better conditions? Possibly in some cases, but more likely because Slovakia is a country which is going nowhere. JLR, for example will face no uncertainty over tariffs etc to EU countries, which if they remained in the UK, would certainly be effected by not just importing materials in, but exporting materials out. This is very much simplified down, but my point still stands. Which company in its right mind is going to continue production in a country that has not only shot itself in the foot, but its face and everywhere else. It is a matter of time before Nissan do exactly the same in Sunderland, and quite frankly it'll serve those people right in that constituency who quite unbelievably voted to leave in their masses.

I cannot believe anyone who thinks that somehow we will be better off with WTO rules and tariffs rather than those we currently have under EU regulations, which are none. Trade is the major reason that we should stay in the EU, and always will be. We are completely cocking ourselves up economy wise, and its because of people like you, and the idiot I've also quoted who cannot understand basic economics.

See above. Delightful insight into how people who aren't economically challenged think!