Conservatism is a losers philosophy. Discuss Watch

Davij038
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#21
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#21
(Original post by AperfectBalance)
If I spoke what I truely believe in public I can pretty much be sure I will be villified and if it gets out my life will be misery, yet a communist is able to walk free because they are fighting for 'equality'

Look at Enoch Powell he was an absolutely outstanding man, one of the finest in politics yet look what happened to him, villified for telling the truth about many things. I fear he may have even been right about the future of the west/the UK.
Powell is the definitive conservative and by that I mean he was an abject failure. He was far from outstanding. His heir is the far more successful but ultimately still a failure Nigel Farage:

Mosley was twice the man Powell was.
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Davij038
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#22
(Original post by AperfectBalance)
ah yes a mass murdering 'human' he deserves the rope and nothing more, he doomed Cuba and proved once again the faliure of Communism whilst subjecting his people to atrocities.
Although communism does have the high score all regimes whether liberal, fascist or communist commit mass murders.

say what you want sbout Castro or Stalin if immigrants came into their country and started grooming children they would have rounded them up and shot them not covered it up and then give them a few years in prison.
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AperfectBalance
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#23
(Original post by Davij038)
Powell is the definitive conservative and by that I mean he was an abject failure. He was far from outstanding. His heir is the far more successful but ultimately still a failure Nigel Farage:

Mosley was twice the man Powell was.
eh Fascism is filled with traitors, less so than communism , Moseley was a traitor to his country yet he did have some points I can agree with. But still National Conservatism is the way foward
Last edited by AperfectBalance; 4 weeks ago
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ltsmith
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#24
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
if conservatism is a losers philosophy then surely fascism is even more of a loser's philosophy.

since op considers far-left winners philosophy, i would consider libertarian a winners philosophy. far-left supports progressive social views but lbiertarian is merely indifferent and makes no claim for or against them.
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BenK64
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#25
(Original post by Davij038)
Although communism does have the high score all regimes whether liberal, fascist or communist commit mass murders.

say what you want sbout Castro or Stalin if immigrants came into their country and started grooming children they would have rounded them up and shot them not covered it up and then give them a few years in prison.
Stalin would have them rounded up and shot because he would have literally anyone rounded up and shot. Most of all his own people. Even returning soldiers. Imagine that. Not being welcomed back as war heroes but being labelled traitors and spies and being sent to gulags for 20 years.
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Last edited by BenK64; 4 weeks ago
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ltsmith
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(Original post by BenK64)
Stalin would have them rounded up and shot because he would have literally anyone rounded up and shot. Most of all his own people. Even returning soldiers. Imagine that. Not being welcomed back as war heroes but being labelled traitors and spies and being sent to gulags for 20 years.
i guess the scene from cod blackops where reznov and dimitri were chucked into nova 6 had a hint of truth to it.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#27
(Original post by AperfectBalance)
ah yes a mass murdering 'human' he deserves the rope and nothing more, he doomed Cuba and proved once again the faliure of Communism whilst subjecting his people to atrocities.
Castro died in his own bed whilst Mussolini met his end strung up to a lamppost. :top:
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by zhog)
I'm knackered, preferable to the Tories or to the Duce? Both?
The UK isn't Cuba is it? Not comparable. I would rather live in a rich western liberal democracy with a welfare state, even if it is ran by Tories. I'm also a democratic socialist so whilst I will defend Cuban communism from right wing attacks it also isn't what I want. Another perspectice is how does/did cuba effect geopolitics? Castra and Cuba were much better allies to black liberation in Africa. Castro was better fot the global south during the cold war.

Cuba is a poorer country Plus I like the internet and the authoratarianism of actually existing communism leaves a lot to be desired. But if I had to live somewhere in 20th centurt latin america then cuba is not at all the worse place to be.

Allende was my prefered Latin American Marxist leader, but look what happened to that experiment. There is a reason the communist government in cuba survived.
Last edited by ChaoticButterfly; 4 weeks ago
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Davij038
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#29
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#29
(Original post by AperfectBalance)
eh Fascism is filled with traitors, less so than communism , Moseley was a traitor to his country yet he did have some points I can agree with. But still National Conservatism is the way foward
How on Earth was Mosley a traitor?
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Davij038
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#30
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(Original post by ltsmith)
if conservatism is a losers philosophy then surely fascism is even more of a loser's philosophy.

since op considers far-left winners philosophy, i would consider libertarian a winners philosophy. far-left supports progressive social views but lbiertarian is merely indifferent and makes no claim for or against them.
I’m not arguing that might makes right. (Although one can argue that it took a recently crushed Germany to the brink of world domination against the night of three superpowers)

Im arguing that it has a winning mindset having been hugely popular and that the power that be have to brainwash people to this day to try and stop them being appealing to people.

Real libertarian though in a way preferable to conservatism is a joke . A collective group that believes in something is always more powerful than a group of individualists.
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Castro died in his own bed whilst Mussolini met his end strung up to a lamppost. :top:
That doesn’t mean anything, conversely Pinochet died in his own bed whilst Trotsky git an ice pick through him
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
That doesn’t mean anything, conversely Pinochet died in his own bed whilst Trotsky git an ice pick through him
Yeah and which between those two "won"?

Considering the US attempts to get rid of Castro and thier record in Latin America, Castro dieing in his own bed is an impressive acheivement.
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Davij038
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#33
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Yeah and which between those two "won"?

Considering the US attempts to get rid of Castro and thier record in Latin America, Castro dieing in his own bed is an impressive acheivement.
What do you mean?

Sure. I’m probably a bigger fan of Castro than Pinochet, the only good thing about him is the helicopter meme which probably never happened.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
What do you mean?
Well Pinoche did what he wanted to achieve. Trotsky was booted out of Russia by Stalin and then murdered by his henchmen. Socialism is one country won out and there was no communist revolutions in the centres of capitalism.
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AperfectBalance
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#35
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
The UK isn't Cuba is it? Not comparable. I would rather live in a rich western liberal democracy with a welfare state, even if it is ran by Tories. I'm also a democratic socialist so whilst I will defend Cuban communism from right wing attacks it also isn't what I want. Another perspectice is how does/did cuba effect geopolitics? Castra and Cuba were much better allies to black liberation in Africa. Castro was better fot the global south during the cold war.

Cuba is a poorer country Plus I like the internet and the authoratarianism of actually existing communism leaves a lot to be desired. But if I had to live somewhere in 20th centurt latin america then cuba is not at all the worse place to be.

Allende was my prefered Latin American Marxist leader, but look what happened to that experiment. There is a reason the communist government in cuba survived.
"I will defend Cuban communism from right wing attacks" you going to defend the Cuban people from murderous Castro and his terrible policies?
"Castra and Cuba were much better allies to black liberation in Africa." Who cares he was an awful human being that killed many many people and brought economic hardship and starvation on his people, he would happily support the black communists and in the mean time support those communists killing undesirables.

Castro also nearly helped cause ww3 so yeah he was certainly not better for the global south, especially since he starved his people and ruined his economy
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SHallowvale
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#36
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(Original post by Davij038)
Read a great quote recently:

‘Conservatism is merely the shadow that follows radicalism (The modern left) as it heads towards perdition’.

Conservatism has always been powerless to stop and in some cases even advocated for and encouraged the radicalism which it is in theory meant to be opposed to.

If you are opposed to the direction that society is hurtling towards; mass immigration, insane social liberalism, suppression of free speech etc then you are eating your time with conservatism as an ideal let alone the abject failure that is the U.K. Tory party.
You're describing social conservatism, which yes is a loser's philosophy. Liberalism has won most of the arguments with only relatively minor issues (such as trans acceptance/rights) existing today.

Economic conservatism however is certainly not dead.
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Davij038
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#37
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
You're describing social conservatism, which yes is a loser's philosophy. Liberalism has won most of the arguments with only relatively minor issues (such as trans acceptance/rights) existing today.

Economic conservatism however is certainly not dead.
Social conservatism doesn’t really work as an ideology as it’s basicalky how normal, healthy l, functional societies, families and people behaved until people like Freud and Adorno et aI pathologised this for their own sick purposes.

Most people regardless of ideology are intrinsically socially conservative
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
Social conservatism doesn’t really work as an ideology as it’s basicalky how normal, healthy l, functional societies, families and people behaved until people like Freud and Adorno et aI pathologised this for their own sick purposes.
That is some bad anthropology.

"Property was possessively marked and patriarchs exercised coercive, sometimes even tyrannical power over their kin. But in the long winter months, when seals and walrus flocked to the Arctic shore, another social structure entirely took over as Inuit gathered together to build great meeting houses of wood, whale-rib and stone. Within them, the virtues of equality, altruism and collective life prevailed; wealth was shared; husbands and wives exchanged partners under the aegis of Sedna, the Goddess of the Seals."

https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/...nter-gatherers

The only "normal" is variation.
Last edited by ChaoticButterfly; 4 weeks ago
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DarthRoar
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(Original post by Davij038)
But I do believe that the radical left have a winners temperament and attitude. Where the conservative is cautious and almost embarrassed to say what is right the radical left are willing to fight for what they believe in and to work collectively to achieve this.
The left and the right work differently to achieve society's goals, or they should at least. The left should prevent too much concentration of power and wealth, should innovate and encourage change when needed. The right should balance that out, prevent the world from constant revolution, provide stable management most of the time, and prevent the left from going crazy.

It's more of a symptom of today's society that the left shouts loud and conservatives are more conceited. The left has a great hold on culture today where conservatives do not. 50 years ago it was the other way around. 50 years from now, it will be the other way around. It's a cycle. As it should be.

(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
I would rather live in a rich western liberal democracy with a welfare state, even if it is ran by Tories. I'm also a democratic socialist so whilst I will defend Cuban communism from right wing attacks it also isn't what I want.
"I like living in a wealthy country with a safety net to fall back upon, all benefits of capitalism. Also I'm a socialist, believe in the literal opposite of capitalism, and will defend that belief."

... What? That some serious mental gymnastics right there.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by DarthRoar)

"I like living in a wealthy country with a safety net to fall back upon, all benefits of capitalism. Also I'm a socialist, believe in the literal opposite of capitalism, and will defend that belief."

... What? That some serious mental gymnastics right there.
I'm not an idealogue and I don't pretend to have all the answers and believe in empiricism. As well I am practical minded, social democratic capitalism is preferable to a capitalism to that provides no sefety net and public services (unless the accelerationists are correct). As far as I can see the best places to live in, if you value freedom, equality and wealth, is the scandi countries.

Socialism being contingent with the rise of capitalism is nothing new. Capitalism is a stage you have to go through to get to communism according to Marxism. This is before you get into the debate between reformism and revolution. Not to mention the deteriation of social democracy becoming a poltical ideology reliant on capitalism to provide wealth that can be redistributed. You need capitalism to have the NHS, basicaly.

This is kind iof where I am with regards to being a socialist.

https://stumblingandmumbling.typepad...socialism.html
Last edited by ChaoticButterfly; 4 weeks ago
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