The losers vote Watch

Burton Bridge
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I'm sick of hearing about this. Everybody including this forum are refusing to properly evaluate the question of 'what would happen if we remained in the European Union?' Untill we do this we can never fix the European model to make it work for the majority of the country.

The peoples vote is a dangerous lie! Under absolutely no circumstances could we justify having remain on any further referendum without proving both the remain and leave camps to be complete liers. We was promised a 'once in a generation vote to put the issue to bed' by the leader of the remain campaign.
Now political figures, carry though on your promiss act on the will of the electorate and let's debate further EU relationships later when we actually have some reliable data as to what would happen when we leave the EU.

Taking the opinion from EU funded businesses, universities, political figures and even in some cases economist's! as unchallenged 100% truth BEFORE it has even happened is neive to say the very least.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 weeks ago
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Burton Bridge
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It seems non of the passionate remainers on the forum took my bait.

I admit the title of this thread was deliberately thought provoking, I wrote it on purpose to show how this sinister model of americanised political spin doctoring (which is really lying) is being used to further divide or too reinforce the divide between Remainers and Leavers.
Losers and winners in my case but what's actually happening now is far more sinister than that, the division the extreme remainers are pushing is People vs underclass or the educated vs the stupid!

I sometimes wonder why it is that people cannot see what is happening before their eyes? For example people get so upset if they if they encounter this political spin doctoring against their cause but at the same time are more than willing to embrace or even endorse it it supports their cause only to wonder why bitter social divisions open up.

Education is failing in my eyes, this spin doctoring is bad, if you disagree go on humanitarian tours go and visit countries with dictatorship style 'democracy' governments see the methods they use and then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 3 weeks ago
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Quady
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
It seems non of the passionate remainers on the forum took my bait.

I admit the title of this thread was deliberately thought provoking, I wrote it on purpose to show how this sinister model of americanised political spin doctoring (which is really lying) is being used to further divide or too reinforce the divide between Remainers and Leavers.
Losers and winners in my case but what's actually happening now is far more sinister than that, the division the extreme remainers are pushing is People vs underclass or the educated vs the stupid!

I sometimes wonder why it is that people cannot see what is happening before their eyes? For example people get so upset if they if they encounter this political spin doctoring against their cause but at the same time are more than willing to embrace or even endorse it it supports their cause only to wonder why bitter social divisions open up.

Education is failing in my eyes, this spin doctoring is bad, if you disagree go on humanitarian tours go and visit countries with dictatorship style 'democracy' governments see the methods they use and then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path.
As a leave voter (in both referendums), and a supporter of of new people's votes, I didn't find the thread title thought provoking.

You seem to be harking back to 'the good old days', it was ever thus.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Quady)
As a leave voter (in both referendums), and a supporter of of new people's votes, I didn't find the thread title thought provoking.

You seem to be harking back to 'the good old days', it was ever thus.
Well you should, everyone should the title was wrong purposely designed to slur 48% of the country, just as People's vote it a condensending term to slur 52% of the country. Can you not see that?

I'd like to know why you think I'm harking back to the good old days? I've never suggested this and said nothing of the sort.
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Quady
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well you should, everyone should the title was wrong purposely designed to slur 48% of the country, just as People's vote it a condensending term to slur 52% of the country. Can you not see that?

I'd like to know why you think I'm harking back to the good old days? I've never suggested this and said nothing of the sort.
Yup, course I can see that. Just not very thought provoking is it? Especially as 'People's vote' just means a vote of the electorate rather than the members vote we are due to have.

As a leave voter I'd like a peoples vote on the final deal.

I'd also like another vote on leaving the Union. I guess that means I want a loser's vote as a natmoaner, hmmmmm pithy condescension doesn't work all the time.

Well saying "this spin doctoring is bad" and "then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path" are phrases which indicate you think things used not to be like this.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Quady)
Yup, course I can see that. Just not very thought provoking is it? Especially as 'People's vote' just means a vote of the electorate rather than the members vote we are due to have.

As a leave voter I'd like a peoples vote on the final deal.

I'd also like another vote on leaving the Union. I guess that means I want a loser's vote as a natmoaner, hmmmmm pithy condescension doesn't work all the time.

Well saying "this spin doctoring is bad" and "then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path" are phrases which indicate you think things used not to be like this.
I don't see it like that, what's a members vote if you don't mind me asking?

condescension does work all the time in my opinion,

No I did not mean things used to be better. "this spin doctoring is bad" and "then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path" are phrases which indicate we are travelling down the wrong path and becoming a little too excepting of behaviour which damages the society we live in
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Quady
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I don't see it like that, what's a members vote if you don't mind me asking?

condescension does work all the time in my opinion,

No I did not mean things used to be better. "this spin doctoring is bad" and "then tell me the slippery slope we are travelling on is the right path" are phrases which indicate we are travelling down the wrong path and becoming a little too excepting of behaviour which damages the society we live in
Members of Parliament.

We are having the Lords and the other chamber voting, but not the public.
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Libtardian
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(Original post by Quady)
As a leave voter (in both referendums), and a supporter of of new people's votes, I didn't find the thread title thought provoking.

You seem to be harking back to 'the good old days', it was ever thus.
A new vote with what options on the ballot paper?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I'm sick of hearing about this. Everybody including this forum are refusing to properly evaluate the question of 'what would happen if we remained in the European Union?' Untill we do this we can never fix the European model to make it work for the majority of the country.
Who is to say it isn't already working for the majority of the country?

Anyone who goes on holiday to Euorope benefits
Anyone who buys food from the supermarket benefits
Anyone who values family life benefits
Anyone who values privacy benefits
Anyone who uses the internet benefits
Anyone who drives a car manufactured in the UK benefits
Anyone who flys on an Airbus benefits
Anyone who visits their local beach benefits
Anyone who is delayed on a flight into or out of Europe benefits
Anyone who uses the NHS benefits

So they are all most of the people who benefit from us being in the EU. Who are the people who don't benefit? And what will we (as individuals) be able to do about it post Brexit? I mean - I have a vote for my parliamentary candidate, but it is worthless becuase unlike the EU, we don't have proportional representation in parliament. So you could argue that I have more power over who is elected to Brussels than I do to my own MP.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Quady)
Members of Parliament.

We are having the Lords and the other chamber voting, but not the public.
Thank you for clearing that up, I understand what you mean and fir what it's worth in part, if you are saying the house of lords and hereditary peers should not have influence greater than the electorate, you're right.

Unfortunately the last body to try to remove these elites from the system found themselves very unpopular with elite and thus the media and as if by coincidence found themselves unpopular with the electorate, go figure.
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jameswhughes
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Who is to say it isn't already working for the majority of the country?

Anyone who goes on holiday to Euorope benefits
Anyone who buys food from the supermarket benefits
Anyone who values family life benefits
Anyone who values privacy benefits
Anyone who uses the internet benefits
Anyone who drives a car manufactured in the UK benefits
Anyone who flys on an Airbus benefits
Anyone who visits their local beach benefits
Anyone who is delayed on a flight into or out of Europe benefits
Anyone who uses the NHS benefits

So they are all most of the people who benefit from us being in the EU. Who are the people who don't benefit? And what will we (as individuals) be able to do about it post Brexit? I mean - I have a vote for my parliamentary candidate, but it is worthless becuase unlike the EU, we don't have proportional representation in parliament. So you could argue that I have more power over who is elected to Brussels than I do to my own MP.
You missed out that the European Union makes the sun rise in the morning.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Who is to say it isn't already working for the majority of the country?
The fact the majority of the electorate want to leave shows they don't believe its working for them, you can stick you're fingers in your ears to that or we can open up serious and proper debate about it, without ridicule. This is the only way we will ever get to the bottom of the root cause of the problem to move forward as a nation.

(Original post by ByEeek)
I have a vote for my parliamentary candidate, but it is worthless becuase unlike the EU, we don't have proportional representation in parliament. So you could argue that I have more power over who is elected to Brussels than I do to my own MP.
This is because the majority of the British public voted for first past the post, you really don't seem to like democracy much, you need to accept you are in the minority and that is the reason you didn't get what you wanted.


As for you're list, I really think it's a shame you are not as passionate about the UK as you are about Europe.

Anyone who goes on holiday to Euorope benefits


by some super basic health care that is so poor everyone buys travel insurance anyway and not having a passport stamped, Europe benifits far more because they are gaining the money into their encomy!

Anyone who buys food from the supermarket benefits,

you're talking like all our food is in Europe, I don't think Banana trees grow in Europe!

Anyone who values family life benefits
Anyone who values privacy benefits
Anyone who uses the internet benefits
Anyone who uses the NHS benefits
Anyone who is delayed on a flight into or out of Europe benefits
Anyone who flys on an Airbus benefits


How? Bloody hell family life, are you for real?

Anyone who drives a car manufactured in the UK benefits

All the people who lost their job in the UK car manufacturing trade benifited from this.....

Anyone who visits their local beach benefits

You do realise that we pay more into Europe than we get back don't you?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by jameswhughes)
You missed out that the European Union makes the sun rise in the morning.
I've just replied to him, I actually rewrote my reply twice because it was so difficult to not add something like you just have
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Quady
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Thank you for clearing that up, I understand what you mean and fir what it's worth in part, if you are saying the house of lords and hereditary peers should not have influence greater than the electorate, you're right.

Unfortunately the last body to try to remove these elites from the system found themselves very unpopular with elite and thus the media and as if by coincidence found themselves unpopular with the electorate, go figure.
I also meant MPs too.
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FinnInMe
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I voted remain but now I am just amused and eating my popcorn watching this s**tshow
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Quady
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
This is because the majority of the British public voted for first past the post,
I don't believe there has ever been a vote on that.
The vast majority voted against AV. I dont believe a vote has happened about STV either.
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winterscoming
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
we can open up serious and proper debate about it, without ridicule. This is the only way we will ever get to the bottom of the root cause of the problem to move forward as a nation.
Excellent idea.. but..


(Original post by Burton Bridge)
you really don't seem to like democracy much
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
As for you're list, I really think it's a shame you are not as passionate about the UK as you are about Europe.
Then you go on to make claims like this and completely undermine your entire position. No point in having a debate with anyone who relies upon logical fallacies to make their argument appear stronger than it really is, because that wouldn't be a real debate. It takes everybody on all sides of a debate to conduct themselves properly, otherwise it's not a real debate and doesn't get anywhere; just more of the same.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Quady)
I also meant MPs too.
That's their job, we cannot have referendums on everything and anything. They seem to solve nothing, in my opinion they can fuel divisions and do the opposite of what they are meant to do.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...-eu-leave/amp/
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by winterscoming)
Excellent idea.. but..






Then you go on to make claims like this and completely undermine your entire position. No point in having a debate with anyone who relies upon logical fallacies to make their argument appear stronger than it really is, because that wouldn't be a real debate. It takes everybody on all sides of a debate to conduct themselves properly, otherwise it's not a real debate and doesn't get anywhere; just more of the same.
I agree with you to a point, what you are probably missing is what you highlight has spilt over from other topics, therefore it isn't based on assumption as much as it would seem. Kind of like walking into a room hall f way through a conversation.
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jameswhughes
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I've just replied to him, I actually rewrote my reply twice because it was so difficult to not add something like you just have
It's incredible, some people seem to be under the impression that there aren't any aeroplanes, cars, beaches or supermarkets outside the EU.
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