(Original post by Gmart)
I thought twice about doing so, but as you are both Brexiteers the answers intersect...
[...]the incompetence of a handful of useless Tories in government
This is a criticism of representative democracy. We voted for them and they got this deal. We are just not as important as the EU. It is amazing we have such a strong place within in. We should use that to help move the EU away from its problems which are many. Even Varifakis (who has more reason than most) is a remainer, preferring to reform from within.
[...]why should no deal be off the table whom gave the mandate for this?
No deal screws the Northern Irish, one of the four constituent parts of the union. Being able to sweep this fact under a convenient mat is ignorant of this issue. I would recommend that Brexiteers concentrate on one of the other options which do not create this schism. No one voted to break up the union.
After all the people rejected remain in a referendum and furthermore elected a government on the promises of delivering Brexit, the parrot like slogan was 'no deal is better than a bad deal'
That's just a slogan. Many promises were made but in the end the election was between two parties who were still promising a cake and eat it future of skipping unicorns in the park of unlimited wealth does not mean that that decision is finished. The original vote was advisory anyway because that was all Cameron could get through parliament. Taking away our rights based on a 52% advisory vote would be oppressive. If the public still wish to leave then fine, but such a constitutionally drastic step requires more than a 52% 2016 vote no matter what you were promised.
[...]therefore how given the overwhelming mandate from the British people how can no deal be removed?
Overwhelming mandate? Hardly.
In the end our representatives went and got a deal and parliament voted it down as unacceptable. The default is the status quo not jumping off a cliff no matter how loud the fundamentalists scream. At some point we have to choose a way forward and this vote is a way.
Note how the Brexiteer camp is divided between the fundamentalists desperately trying to get to the finish line to 'properly' get out of the EU before we change our mind. And the moderates who know that this is a bad idea and can see the evidence, but find it hard to backtrack to a position where we are an important, contributing member of the EU.
Let me repeat that the Brexiteer camp is supporting the removal of rights from the populus at large. How often have you thought about that and wondered if the original vote was enough to do that?
Oh I would say my opinion is far from his, this is half the problem In the way that people are so fixated with labeling people and grouping them together as opposed to listening to each others real concerns. Part of good debate is using you're ears and brain before using your mouth.
You written a lot so clearly care deeply about what you are saying and believe your are correct and are acting in the best interests, the problem is so do I. Unfortunately I feel you are making vast assumptions about what other people are thinking and what will happen should we leave which you don't know to be true.
Firstly you told me I am making a criticism of representative democracy. I'm not at all. I was questioning your statement from earlier. Why should the majority of the electorate have their wish over thrown by the incompetence of a handful of useless Tories in government? That's it, that's all I meant. Please don't look for one sentence you disagree with and reinvent what I'm saying to suit your point. We voted for them and they got this deal, however the 'brexiteers' did not get this deal because their remain supporting boss blocked them from doing so repeatedly at every turn. Therefore I'll ask the question again how have the Brexiteers (I hate that label) let the negotiations down?
Secondly, the election manifesto the government was elected on was not just a slogan, I think I must of missed the version where unicorns were offered? The reality is government was elected on a promises of delivering Brexit, I personally know of one person whom hates the tories but voted for them last GE because of Brexit alone. This government was elected on the promises they made on Brexit alone, to say otherwise is disingenuous.
Thirdly a vote for leaving the EU is just that, it's a vote for leaving the EU. It's not jumping off a cliff or taking away our rights, really your actions are exceptionally fearful almost akin or a child scared of light being switched off because they don't understand the room does not change in the dark. We are not falling off a cliff or losing any rights we are taking control of our own destiny. You keep saying we did not vote for this or that you disagree but you are missing the fact that we did not vote to remain. As Paul correctly says the only betrayals to the vote are the remain options.
Fourth, Overwhelming mandate, Hardly how? Sorry how not? We have voted the leave 52% bench mark agreed was 50%. We rejected remain parties in the next snap general election. No majority body has voted to remain full stop, how is that possibly a mandate to stay in the EU?
Furthermore, we are not less important than Europe, I'm sorry I think this may be the problem. I'm English first, British second and European third. Like the leader of the remain campaign said 'I don't love Europe, I love Britain' 'we can survive and prospour outside of Europe' I agree with him on that point.
Britain is more important than the European Union!