Only 95% of UK adults think the Holocaust occurred Watch

AperfectBalance
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#21
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(Original post by Decahedron)
For most countries it isn't their history and not even vaguely related to them.

We don't teach the history of many countries' genocides and war crimes, or even just straight up barbarity.
ask anyone about the Classicide that took place in Russia and China , the genocide of Ukrainians, I would be suprised if they actully knew about them, but no guys we need to KEEP remembering the holocaust, especially due to the tragic jewish deaths lets just brush the deaths of millions of slavs under the rug.

All of these tragic loss of lives need to be remembered yet the Holocaust is the only one that people seem to care about
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Acsel
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(Original post by ThomH97)
And 1 in 12 thinks it's been exaggerated. So says a survey by the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust based on 2,000 UK adults. Does this surprise you? And should everyone be aware of it?
Does it surprise me? No. The sample size is ridiculously small. 2000 people out of the UK's 66 million population is a mere 0.003% so I'd hardly consider it representative of the UK as a whole. Granted the number of adults is smaller than the total population, but it's still a stupidly small sample to draw any conclusions from.

Should everyone be aware of it? Sure. But it's important to see the wider picture. Consider how many were killed in WWII. Or WWI. Or any other war. Or any other genocidal act. The Holocaust is somewhat unique but it certainly isn't the only event to have ever occurred. Rather than placing emphasis on the Holocaust, I'd rather place emphasis on what these events represented. Understanding what, how and why these events happen, no matter how big or small they are, is key to preventing them happening in the future.
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ltsmith
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
Guess the Nazis were muslim too huh? No such thing as anti-semitism among white people?
you are a master of strawman.
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Decahedron
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(Original post by AperfectBalance)
ask anyone about the Classicide that took place in Russia and China , the genocide of Ukrainians, I would be suprised if they actully knew about them, but no guys we need to KEEP remembering the holocaust, especially due to the tragic jewish deaths lets just brush the deaths of millions of slavs under the rug.

All of these tragic loss of lives need to be remembered yet the Holocaust is the only one that people seem to care about
What I find particularly disturbing is that some will argue until they are blue in the face the Jewish loss of life is more important than all others that occured during this period.

To be ignorant of something is acceptable because not everyone can know everything, but the loss of life especially on this scale is always a tragedy and should be treated equally. Although part of the reason we do not recognise the Soviet crimes is because we became allies with them even with knowledge of what they were doing.

And the British have a particular dark spot when it comes to concentration camps because they invented during the Second Anglo-Boer War.
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ltsmith
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(Original post by Megxn0)
I’ve only ever seen white men denying the holocaust. There are so many anti-Semitic Muslims, but I haven’t seen any literally denying genocide.
have you heard of hezbollah; the lebanon islamist militant group? they are known for holocaust denial and they even teach their soldiers the nazi salute.
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Nautilus
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Anyone who knows anything about history knows that Hitler didn't just target Jews, but gay people, prostitutes, gypsies and anyone that didn't fit his ideal. Jews were a massive group though. My great grandfather managed to get out of Germany in time, but many members of his family didn't and were exterminated in the concentration camps.

As for the 5% - you can't argue with stupid.

More4 were showing Night Will Fall last night. Did anyone watch it?
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AperfectBalance
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(Original post by Decahedron)
What I find particularly disturbing is that some will argue until they are blue in the face the Jewish loss of life is more important than all others that occured during this period.

To be ignorant of something is acceptable because not everyone can know everything, but the loss of life especially on this scale is always a tragedy and should be treated equally. Although part of the reason we do not recognise the Soviet crimes is because we became allies with them even with knowledge of what they were doing.

And the British have a particular dark spot when it comes to concentration camps because they invented during the Second Anglo-Boer War.
We have already had one person arguing that the loss of jewish lives was more important than slavic lives, I dont even care if we dont officially recognize th e mass killings that happened on a far larger scale than the holocaust, just that we care about it yet so few people know or care.


And the whole "the british invented concentration camps" things is 100% false, they had been used in America and in Spain (in cuba I think) the definition is also pretty bad and many other things where X people were put into prisions happened and were not down to one country, but even with our camps they were not with the express goal of murdering boers, the conditions were horrible (so were the conditions for our soldiers) but when we put an inquirey into how bad they were we improved them because we recognized that turning a concentration camp into a death camp was not desireable.
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Decahedron
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(Original post by AperfectBalance)
We have already had one person arguing that the loss of jewish lives was more important than slavic lives, I dont even care if we dont officially recognize th e mass killings that happened on a far larger scale than the holocaust, just that we care about it yet so few people know or care.


And the whole "the british invented concentration camps" things is 100% false, they had been used in America and in Spain (in cuba I think) the definition is also pretty bad and many other things where X people were put into prisions happened and were not down to one country, but even with our camps they were not with the express goal of murdering boers, the conditions were horrible (so were the conditions for our soldiers) but when we put an inquirey into how bad they were we improved them because we recognized that turning a concentration camp into a death camp was not desireable.
Thank you for clarifying that, I wasn't that aware of the context.
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Acsel
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(Original post by Decahedron)
To be ignorant of something is acceptable because not everyone can know everything, but the loss of life especially on this scale is always a tragedy and should be treated equally.
I think there is some merit in treating them differently. Those killed by war and those killed by war crimes aren't fundamentally the same. That's not to say one is any more or less important, but I think it's a different type of important.

I think trying to treat them equally removes the severity of the cause. Because a soldier killed in war and a victim of genocide are two totally different scenarios and represent two different problems.
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Decahedron
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(Original post by Acsel)
I think there is some merit in treating them differently. Those killed by war and those killed by war crimes aren't fundamentally the same. That's not to say one is any more or less important, but I think it's a different type of important.

I think trying to treat them equally removes the severity of the cause. Because a soldier killed in war and a victim of genocide are two totally different scenarios and represent two different problems.
The problem we have however is that an estimated 17 million people were put to death during the holocaust. But there only seems to be widespread recognition for 6 million Jews, 11 million casulities of the holocaust are sidelined because they aren't Jews. That is not right.
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stoyfan
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(Original post by Jebedee)
Maybe if the government didn't feel the need to criminalise dissenting opinion on the matter, that 5% would be lower.

The Holocaust is certainly not my area of expertise and I don't pretend to be informed. So from a neutral point of view, it's easy to see why someone would doubt the government enforced narrative.

You don't convince people with threats but with logic and evidence.
Can you provide us with an example of when the government crimilised holocaust denailism.
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Acsel
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(Original post by Decahedron)
The problem we have however is that an estimated 17 million people were put to death during the holocaust. But there only seems to be widespread recognition for 6 million Jews, 11 million casulities of the holocaust are sidelined because they aren't Jews. That is not right.
That's a fundamentally different problem though. That's an issue of teaching, reporting and information sharing.

To be fair, I think the variation in numbers is somewhat understandable. Most of us learned about this in school. In school, you need to have a correct answer. The sources for how many died and all over the place and even today we still only have, as you say, an estimate. That doesn't make it alright, but from a teaching perspective it's just more practical to say 6 million Jews. From a teaching perspective, the numbers simply aren't there to provide. Which perfectly highlights the issues with our education system, where the correct answer takes precedence over learning.

I do agree that the 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust do get far more attention than any of the other groups. But actually changing that requires a total upheaval in the values of our education system
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Megxn0
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(Original post by ltsmith)
have you heard of hezbollah; the lebanon islamist militant group? they are known for holocaust denial and they even teach their soldiers the nazi salute.
Hezbollah is a terrorist group. I’m talking about regular white men that believe in “Jews fueling white genocide” and “the holocaust never happened” type of conspiracy theories. I genuinely haven’t seen a regular Muslim that believes in that ****
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Kangaroo17
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(Original post by ThomH97)
And 1 in 12 thinks it's been exaggerated. So says a survey by the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust based on 2,000 UK adults. Does this surprise you? And should everyone be aware of it? What are the consequences if more people aren't aware of what happened?

I do think the Holocaust occurred, and I don't think it's been exaggerated to say 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis. However, I do think other victims of the Holocaust have been ignored, for example Poles and homosexuals, and I'm rather annoyed at the BBC for leaving that out of their article. I understand that the number of Jews murdered was larger than that of other groups, but to ignore millions of other murder victims because 'not enough' were killed is wrong. On the plus side, they have at least mentioned Rwanda and Cambodia, though I wouldn't expect those to be known as well in this country which fought against the Nazi regime.

Personally, I am not worried that 5% of adults don't think the Holocaust occurred. If they also happened to think that Jews were inherently bad or inferior, then we have a problem, but just because someone isn't aware of (or denies) Pol Pot doesn't mean they're a risk to some random Cambodian walking around.
While the holocaust was a tragedy, i do think it gets more than enough attention, too much perhaps. I feel like giving too much attention is wearing away the seriousness of the holocaust.

Also, for me, WW2 was a confusing one - The nazis were bad, ok, but its not as simple as bad. And winston churchill was a rotten potato too. I want to know more about what colonialism has done - its not fair how that gets brushed under the carpet while we get taught so much about WW2.
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ltsmith
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(Original post by Megxn0)
Hezbollah is a terrorist group. I’m talking about regular white men that believe in “Jews fueling white genocide” and “the holocaust never happened” type of conspiracy theories. I genuinely haven’t seen a regular Muslim that believes in that ****
i haven't seen any white men who believe in that type of stuff either. however, it doesn't suggest they don't exist.

it's not that common amongst indian/pakistani muslims; it's usually the arab muslims who develop extreme anti-semitic views. there aren't many arab muslims in the UK; most are indian/pakistani.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Kangaroo17)
While the holocaust was a tragedy, i do think it gets more than enough attention, too much perhaps. I feel like giving too much attention is wearing away the seriousness of the holocaust.

Also, for me, WW2 was a confusing one - The nazis were bad, ok, but its not as simple as bad. And winston churchill was a rotten potato too. I want to know more about what colonialism has done - its not fair how that gets brushed under the carpet while we get taught so much about WW2.
How does learning about the Holocaust mean it is less serious?
How much have you studied History and world war 2? Feel free to enlighten us?
What redeeming features did the nazis have and who said it was simple?
Colonailsim does not get brushed under the carpet its merely a different area of History.
World war 2 was the most significant event in the 20th century.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Blue_Cow)
Heard this on Radio 4 on my way to the shops an hour or so ago... Shocking stuff.
I dont think so. I am surpised it is so low. Theres enough antupathy towards jewish people and Israel from certain quarters plus conspiracy theroists that it fits with their reasoning to be in the holocaust denier camp. You see it posted on TSR all the time.
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The RAR
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It's only 5%, they are probably the same ones who are keyboard warriors in YouTube comments sections and online forums I see on a daily basis
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999tigger
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(Original post by Jebedee)
Maybe if the government didn't feel the need to criminalise dissenting opinion on the matter, that 5% would be lower.

The Holocaust is certainly not my area of expertise and I don't pretend to be informed. So from a neutral point of view, it's easy to see why someone would doubt the government enforced narrative.

You don't convince people with threats but with logic and evidence.
How has the government criminalised dissenting opinion?
How is it an enforced government narrative?
Are you a holcaust denier?
What sort of threats has the givernment been using?

Feel free to enlighten us.
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DrMikeHuntHertz
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(Original post by Megxn0)
I’ve only ever seen white men denying the holocaust. There are so many anti-Semitic Muslims, but I haven’t seen any literally denying genocide.
Obviously you're not looking hard enough or you're an antisemite and want to cover it up.
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