Only 95% of UK adults think the Holocaust occurred Watch

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#41
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People are not well-informed. Combo of poor education and not being interested in history. Realistically, when do we ever think about the Holocaust -- in a history class and when watching some WWII movie? It isn't an active part of current public life in a way the HMD believes it should be, which maybe is lamentable.
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Kangaroo17
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(Original post by 999tigger)
How does learning about the Holocaust mean it is less serious?
How much have you studied History and world war 2? Feel free to enlighten us?
What redeeming features did the nazis have and who said it was simple?
Colonailsim does not get brushed under the carpet its merely a different area of History.
World war 2 was the most significant event in the 20th century.
1) I said giving it a lot of attention. I don't know why, but jokes about the jews, gassing chambers and nazis are not uncommon.
2) In comparison to other parts of history at school, WW2 was learnt more in depth.
3) Don't really want to get into that, but the ideology is evil. And no one did, but labeling "The axis" and "The allies" just supports history is written by the victors.

4) Yes it is a different part of history, duh, but its a SIGNIFICANT part of British and western european history. I dare say most of the power and wealth came through colonalism. I've seen french comments on social media for example where they complain about what germans did in the past, as if france hasn't committed, possibly even commiting, attrocities in african colonies. Why are they not aware of it?

Yeah its a touchy subject, but the only place where i've learnt about it is online.

5) Obviously.
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Zürich
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(Original post by ThomH97)
And 1 in 12 thinks it's been exaggerated. So says a survey by the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust based on 2,000 UK adults. Does this surprise you? And should everyone be aware of it? What are the consequences if more people aren't aware of what happened?

I do think the Holocaust occurred, and I don't think it's been exaggerated to say 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis. However, I do think other victims of the Holocaust have been ignored, for example Poles and homosexuals, and I'm rather annoyed at the BBC for leaving that out of their article. I understand that the number of Jews murdered was larger than that of other groups, but to ignore millions of other murder victims because 'not enough' were killed is wrong. On the plus side, they have at least mentioned Rwanda and Cambodia, though I wouldn't expect those to be known as well in this country which fought against the Nazi regime.

Personally, I am not worried that 5% of adults don't think the Holocaust occurred. If they also happened to think that Jews were inherently bad or inferior, then we have a problem, but just because someone isn't aware of (or denies) Pol Pot doesn't mean they're a risk to some random Cambodian walking around.
Well of course it happened. But the numbers have never been even debated as its seen as taboo to bring it up for various reasons. 6m were claimed and people said "sure, how can we make it up to you?" so its pretty obvious what incentives there were.

And yes, other groups such as Poles deserve rememberance too.
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BlueIndigoViolet
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lol 2000 people?? Stalin was a mass murderer and not to say Hitler was good, but let's just say we remember the victor's version of history
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XKangaotiCX
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(Original post by ThomH97)
And 1 in 12 thinks it's been exaggerated. So says a survey by the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust based on 2,000 UK adults. Does this surprise you? And should everyone be aware of it? What are the consequences if more people aren't aware of what happened?

I do think the Holocaust occurred, and I don't think it's been exaggerated to say 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis. However, I do think other victims of the Holocaust have been ignored, for example Poles and homosexuals, and I'm rather annoyed at the BBC for leaving that out of their article. I understand that the number of Jews murdered was larger than that of other groups, but to ignore millions of other murder victims because 'not enough' were killed is wrong. On the plus side, they have at least mentioned Rwanda and Cambodia, though I wouldn't expect those to be known as well in this country which fought against the Nazi regime.

Personally, I am not worried that 5% of adults don't think the Holocaust occurred. If they also happened to think that Jews were inherently bad or inferior, then we have a problem, but just because someone isn't aware of (or denies) Pol Pot doesn't mean they're a risk to some random Cambodian walking around.
This information is distressing. I guess that 5% is the same 5% who think the earth is flat?
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Megxn0
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(Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz)
Obviously you're not looking hard enough or you're an antisemite and want to cover it up.
Prove me wrong then. If I was an anti-Semite, why would I recognize white men denying the holocaust and not Muslims...?
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Academic_Medic
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Unarguably, the holocaust was a grim reminder of prejudice and the failure of a just democracy; the barbaric atrocities inflicted on millions of innocent civillians should be heavily condemmed; yet me made a solemn symbol of peace. However, discussing this issue is undeniably a sensitive issue, it is fair to say that the sample size is insufficiently small, and not representative of the UK population, nor the cultural society of our nation. Throughout our esteemed British education we are taught to be tolerant, to be respectful and remindful of the past; appreciating the sacrifices made to those who forged our country, and established peace. The UK consists of a plethora of nationalities, intergrated together; this interwined country therefore results in having a minority who may be considered as not as educated as those who are educated under our British system. Some of these people may be illiterate, blinded to seeing the past, or ignorant. It is not a case of denial, it is a case of either ignorance, or the failure to acknowledge the past. It is unfortunate, but there isn't anything we as a society can do. What is important that the majority of the world recognises and realises the grim realities of war, and the fatal tole this has on the innocent. Together, as a herd we can be united to ensure that peace is maintained, educating future generations on our distasteful past.

Note: We also need to recognise other genocides besides the holocaust, the emphasis should also be placed on the imperialistic death camps established by the British in Africa & India; as well as the numerous masacares. Furthermore let us not forget that Western Civilisation decimated and made an established Native American Civilisation become extinct for the sake of glory. In addition to this, almost every nation is guilty of comitting impetuous genocides and crimes against humanity, it is time to add more closure to the holocaust, opening up new chapters of remembrance of the other innocent civillians who have suffered yet been neglected!
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TimmonaPortella
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You can find 5% of the population to support virtually any proposition you can think of.

95% agreement is very high.
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Academic_Medic
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
You can find 5% of the population to support virtually any proposition you can think of.

95% agreement is very high.
Agreed, the 5% are insignificant. In statistics we adopt a 5% significance.
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(Original post by Academic_Medic)
Unarguably, the holocaust was a grim reminder of prejudice and the failure of a just democracy; the barbaric atrocities inflicted on millions of innocent civillians should be heavily condemmed; yet me made a solemn symbol of peace. However, discussing this issue is undeniably a sensitive issue, it is fair to say that the sample size is insufficiently small, and not representative of the UK population, nor the cultural society of our nation. Throughout our esteemed British education we are taught to be tolerant, to be respectful and remindful of the past; appreciating the sacrifices made to those who forged our country, and established peace. The UK consists of a plethora of nationalities, intergrated together; this interwined country therefore results in having a minority who may be considered as not as educated as those who are educated under our British system. Some of these people may be illiterate, blinded to seeing the past, or ignorant. It is not a case of denial, it is a case of either ignorance, or the failure to acknowledge the past. It is unfortunate, but there isn't anything we as a society can do. What is important that the majority of the world recognises and realises the grim realities of war, and the fatal tole this has on the innocent. Together, as a herd we can be united to ensure that peace is maintained, educating future generations on our distasteful past.

Note: We also need to recognise other genocides besides the holocaust, the emphasis should also be placed on the imperialistic death camps established by the British in Africa & India; as well as the numerous masacares. Furthermore let us not forget that Western Civilisation decimated and made an established Native American Civilisation become extinct for the sake of glory. In addition to this, almost every nation is guilty of comitting impetuous genocides and crimes against humanity, it is time to add more closure to the holocaust, opening up new chapters of remembrance of the other innocent civillians who have suffered yet been neglected!
I vote down the whole teaching "genocide in the colonies" thing. It will go some way to defeat my full-blooded patriotism.
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999tigger
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#51
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(Original post by Kangaroo17)
1) I said giving it a lot of attention. I don't know why, but jokes about the jews, gassing chambers and nazis are not uncommon.
2) In comparison to other parts of history at school, WW2 was learnt more in depth.
3) Don't really want to get into that, but the ideology is evil. And no one did, but labeling "The axis" and "The allies" just supports history is written by the victors.

4) Yes it is a different part of history, duh, but its a SIGNIFICANT part of British and western european history. I dare say most of the power and wealth came through colonalism. I've seen french comments on social media for example where they complain about what germans did in the past, as if france hasn't committed, possibly even commiting, attrocities in african colonies. Why are they not aware of it?

Yeah its a touchy subject, but the only place where i've learnt about it is online.

5) Obviously.
1. is just simply a bizarre argument. You obviously hang around very strange people. I would say jokes about such things releative to actual serious interest and learning are uncommon. Care to point out where these jokes and articles are?
2. I would say that is almost certainly a lie. What level did you study history to? WW2 as an event is hardly in any of the specifciation options at GCSE or GCE. WW2 for most syallbus ends at 1939.
3. You are the one that said it. Explain what you mean. I find it difficylt to believe you have sudied history to any extent, especially world war 2. Labelling the axis and allies what?
4.You are relying on social media and jokes to back up your points. Thats really desperate. WW2 was the most significant event in world history in the 20th century. If you had studied histiry youd realise students study several periods, which can inlcude colonialism, empire and many other periods, so am highly doubtful you have studied it at all.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Academic_Medic)
Unarguably, the holocaust was a grim reminder of prejudice and the failure of a just democracy; the barbaric atrocities inflicted on millions of innocent civillians should be heavily condemmed; yet me made a solemn symbol of peace. However, discussing this issue is undeniably a sensitive issue, it is fair to say that the sample size is insufficiently small, and not representative of the UK population, nor the cultural society of our nation. Throughout our esteemed British education we are taught to be tolerant, to be respectful and remindful of the past; appreciating the sacrifices made to those who forged our country, and established peace. The UK consists of a plethora of nationalities, intergrated together; this interwined country therefore results in having a minority who may be considered as not as educated as those who are educated under our British system. Some of these people may be illiterate, blinded to seeing the past, or ignorant. It is not a case of denial, it is a case of either ignorance, or the failure to acknowledge the past. It is unfortunate, but there isn't anything we as a society can do. What is important that the majority of the world recognises and realises the grim realities of war, and the fatal tole this has on the innocent. Together, as a herd we can be united to ensure that peace is maintained, educating future generations on our distasteful past.

Note: We also need to recognise other genocides besides the holocaust, the emphasis should also be placed on the imperialistic death camps established by the British in Africa & India; as well as the numerous masacares. Furthermore let us not forget that Western Civilisation decimated and made an established Native American Civilisation become extinct for the sake of glory. In addition to this, almost every nation is guilty of comitting impetuous genocides and crimes against humanity, it is time to add more closure to the holocaust, opening up new chapters of remembrance of the other innocent civillians who have suffered yet been neglected!
Well written but as made earlier 5% of holocaust deniers is surpisingly low and its surpising the figure isnt higher compared to how many anti semitics , igorant and conspiracy sort of people are out there. Other massacres are covered by students who study history if you do the options on colonialism or the American west. the holocaust has a special place and relevance though, its in living memory and nothing was quite as structured and meticulously planned with the sole aim of genocide.
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TheMcSame
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(Original post by Donutorchid)
Because racial discrimination caused war and civilians died because of the war itself.
You're not wrong, but it wasn't just the Jews that were discriminated against. Hitler had planned to enslave the Slavic majority in Poland, at the very least, that's Anti-Polish sentiment, at worst it's Anti-Slavic sentiment. While I do believe that, at the time, Poland had the largest Jewish population, it is straight up wrong to place more importance on their death and suffering. In German-occupied Poland, some Volksdeutsch properties hung a sign saying "Zutritt für Polen verboten!", the literal translation being "Access for Polish forbidden". Poles were literally unwelcome in their own country in some places, much like German-Jews back in Germany.

I personally differ dying in concentration camps under inhumane conditions compared to casualties of war.
I get that, some may have been killed instantly by a bomb, while those in camps may have lived months slowly dying and suffering. But here's the issue; how many of them were Jews? Estimates put 15-20M people within those camps. 6M Jews were killed, let's say they were all put into these camps. There's still another 9-14M people there who aren't Jews. At the absolute worst, in a hypothetical situation where ever European Jew was put into a camp (I believe the estimated Jewish population just before the war was about 9M), you're still talking 6-11M other people. This is the sort of mindset I'm getting at when I say it can be argued that the importance is exaggerated. We're constantly told about the Jews, but what about the Poles or the war prisoners or god knows who else that ended up in these places?

And there is not so much to speak about why civilians were killed because in every war this would happen (for example, from what I am learning in WWII class factories in Germany were targeted to obviously cut supplies but to achieve this there are attempts and sometimes bigger bombs are needed which kills civilians too).
You're not wrong, but what makes their deaths less important? It might also interest you to know that it was the Allied forces who suffered the greatest loss of civilians. I believe the split is something like 45M to 4M, keeping in mind that the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan, part of the Axis forces, I believe that would've been a better example of 'collateral damage'.

Statistically speaking though I do not see 95% as a bad number at all as 100% is usually never achievable in many topics.
No doubt about that. 95% isn't bad, but it's still worrying nonetheless.
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by TheMcSame)

No doubt about that. 95% isn't bad, but it's still worrying nonetheless.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn...arth-is-round/


Millennials in America sometimes get a bad reputation, this time for good reason. A recent survey found that just 66 percent of young adults aged 18 to 24 years old have "always believed the world is round."

YouGov polled 8,215 US adults on February 8th, 2018 to get a representative idea of America's views on the shape of the Earth. What they found would make any scientist shake their heads, a surprising percentage of responders weren't convinced the Earth is round...

In total, 84% of Americans responded that they believe the Earth is round.
95% is just fine.

Edit:

For some further context:

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/pzr1fuzydn/YG-Archives-Life-YG-Conspiracies-040712.pdf

Only 95% of Britons think Elvis Presley is dead. Only 75% think the moon landings happened.
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DrMikeHuntHertz
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(Original post by Megxn0)
Prove me wrong then. If I was an anti-Semite, why would I recognize white men denying the holocaust and not Muslims...?
It doesn't make you not an anti-semite but just not as much of an anti-semite.
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goggleyed
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only 95%? lmao thats a pretty high percentage

yeah 5% of the population is either ignorant or downright dumb, nothing new there. its always been well known that there are a LOT of dimwits on this planet. i'm just surprised its 5%, thought it would be more...
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Kangaroo17
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(Original post by 999tigger)
1. is just simply a bizarre argument. You obviously hang around very strange people. I would say jokes about such things releative to actual serious interest and learning are uncommon. Care to point out where these jokes and articles are?
2. I would say that is almost certainly a lie. What level did you study history to? WW2 as an event is hardly in any of the specifciation options at GCSE or GCE. WW2 for most syallbus ends at 1939.
3. You are the one that said it. Explain what you mean. I find it difficylt to believe you have sudied history to any extent, especially world war 2. Labelling the axis and allies what?
4.You are relying on social media and jokes to back up your points. Thats really desperate. WW2 was the most significant event in world history in the 20th century. If you had studied histiry youd realise students study several periods, which can inlcude colonialism, empire and many other periods, so am highly doubtful you have studied it at all.
Ok, whatever, im not good with making points lol. But don't deny that colonialism, and the horrors of it, are less known than WW2. I have NOT AT ALL learnt about it at school other than online. I know however that it may affect the country's morale when they learn about the atrocities their own countries committed.

Take a look at this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn...d_foot_of_his/

Stop trying to win the argument. Im just rather upset that things like this are, in comparison, ignored.
I mean these comments even admit they didn't know about it.

EDIT:

"Belgian here. This subject is only hastily covered in our history classes. We're taught that Belgium once colonized Congo, but the horrors that happened during that time are not really discussed in depth. The world wars on the other hand..."

Ok. Now im annoyed.
Sorry, im not watering down the pain the holocaust victims felt. But this is what i'm trying to say. The holocaust gets more than its share of attention in a way.
Last edited by Kangaroo17; 3 weeks ago
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Decahedron
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(Original post by Kangaroo17)
Ok, whatever, im not good with making points lol. But don't deny that colonialism, and the horrors of it, are less known than WW2. I have NOT AT ALL learnt about it at school other than online. I know however that it may affect the country's morale when they learn about the atrocities their own countries committed.

Take a look at this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn...d_foot_of_his/

Stop trying to win the argument. Im just rather upset that things like this are, in comparison, ignored.
I mean these comments even admit they didn't know about it.

EDIT:

"Belgian here. This subject is only hastily covered in our history classes. We're taught that Belgium once colonized Congo, but the horrors that happened during that time are not really discussed in depth. The world wars on the other hand..."

Ok. Now im annoyed.
Sorry, im not watering down the pain the holocaust victims felt. But this is what i'm trying to say. The holocaust gets more than its share of attention in a way.
There is only so much that can be taught in school with the limited time provided, the history that is often taught is firstly relevant to modern day such as WW2 and secondly relevant to us as a nation.

I completely agree that more should be done about teaching people about colonisation but we can't cover every attrocity committed in history. We can't even cover every attrocity committed under colonial rule.
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Jebedee
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(Original post by 999tigger)
How has the government criminalised dissenting opinion?
How is it an enforced government narrative?
Are you a holcaust denier?
What sort of threats has the givernment been using?

Feel free to enlighten us.
(Original post by stoyfan)
Can you provide us with an example of when the government crimilised holocaust denailism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_a...locaust_denial

Plenty of governments with a range of fines and punishments exist.
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(Original post by Kangaroo17)
Ok, whatever, im not good with making points lol. But don't deny that colonialism, and the horrors of it, are less known than WW2. I have NOT AT ALL learnt about it at school other than online. I know however that it may affect the country's morale when they learn about the atrocities their own countries committed.

Take a look at this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn...d_foot_of_his/

Stop trying to win the argument. Im just rather upset that things like this are, in comparison, ignored.
I mean these comments even admit they didn't know about it.

EDIT:

"Belgian here. This subject is only hastily covered in our history classes. We're taught that Belgium once colonized Congo, but the horrors that happened during that time are not really discussed in depth. The world wars on the other hand..."

Ok. Now im annoyed.
Sorry, im not watering down the pain the holocaust victims felt. But this is what i'm trying to say. The holocaust gets more than its share of attention in a way.
No one is interested in how annoyed a random TSR user is. Stop going on about it.
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