Flat/ Round Earth Theory Watch

anosmianAcrimony
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Abida.etc)
My belief was that our eyes 'see' the earth as flat because, firstly the earth is so big and we are so small, secondly our vision is not strong enough to see beyong the horizon.
It's not that our vision isn't strong enough, it's that the Earth is between us and things that are beyond the horizon.
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QE2
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#22
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(Original post by Abida.etc)
The evidence that the earth is round includes the following: He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around the day and the day around the night” [az-Zumar 39:5].
This is a very poor description of how night and day works. They are not objects that wrapped can be wrapped.


The word yukawwir (translated here as “wraps around” means to make something round, like a turban.
You can wrap a piece of cloth around an object of any shape.

It is well-known that night and day follow one another on earth, which implies that the Earth is round,
Night and day would work the same on a flat earth under that description.

because if you wrap one thing around another thing, and the thing that it is wrapped around is the Earth, then Earth must be round.
This is just circular logic ('scuse the pun! )
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potatina
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#23
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#23
Please someone prove that the flat earth theory is right so I can finally push the people I hate off the edge :blush:
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Vinny C
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#24
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The Earth is obviously 4 dimensional... how else could you go in a straight line and end up back where you started?
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username3315892
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#25
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#25
1) You can wrap a piece of cloth around an object of any shape.
This has already given the context of what Yukawwir means. Not all languages can be translated perfectly into English. To reiterate, in this sense it means to wrap around something that is already round. e.g the turband wrapping around an already round head. You perhaps cannot use the word Yukawwir in other contexts because that it not how the arabic word is used. It has its specific defition for its specific context. It just so happens in English, we have a borader term for our synonyms.

2) Night and day would work the same on a flat earth under that description
As the earth is round, the sun and moon rotate around the earth providing day for half of the earth and night for the other half. If the earth was flat, how would the sun and moon alternate equally, providing night and day? It's not going to move in a striaght line basis.

3) This is just circular logic ('scuse the pun! )
Yes I thought this was supposed to be obvious too

Thanks for these points you've given, because i think debating definitly made me think a lot more about what I was saying and give substance to my points.
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username3315892
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Vinny C)
The Earth is obviously 4 dimensional... how else could you go in a straight line and end up back where you started?
By going round it. Gravity clearly holds us down. But to be fair, you have a valid point, just not logical if it was really 4D, gravity might still apply but there would have to be an edge somewhere
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username3315892
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#27
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
It's not that our vision isn't strong enough, it's that the Earth is between us and things that are beyond the horizon.
Oh I see what you mean. Hmmm. I still disagree though, if the earth was flat, our vision can only span so far. Even people will 20/20 vision cannot see flat miles and miles and miles away. And things become smaller by distance so you wouldn't see everything as they stand when you first look ahead, you would still have to move forward
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Good bloke
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Abida.etc)
. Even people will 20/20 vision cannot see flat miles and miles and miles away.
Of course they can! How do you think we can see the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars? The latter are so far away that their distance is measured in light-years, rather than miles.
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Vinny C
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#29
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(Original post by Abida.etc)
By going round it. Gravity clearly holds us down. But to be fair, you have a valid point, just not logical if it was really 4D, gravity might still apply but there would have to be an edge somewhere
Disagree... spacetime is 4D and that doesn't have an edge.
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anosmianAcrimony
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#30
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(Original post by Abida.etc)
Oh I see what you mean. Hmmm. I still disagree though, if the earth was flat, our vision can only span so far. Even people will 20/20 vision cannot see flat miles and miles and miles away. And things become smaller by distance so you wouldn't see everything as they stand when you first look ahead, you would still have to move forward
Human vision isn't limited with respect to distance from the things we're trying to look at, although faraway objects become more difficult to distinguish from each other. Our view of them might be blocked by closer objects, or eventually the air itself will block our view, because air isn't completely transparent.

If the horizon was just the hard limit of human vision, we wouldn't be able to see the sun, the moon, or the stars, which are much further away than the horizon. On a clear day, at sea, you can see for miles and miles and miles, but then vision suddenly stops at a very clear boundary where the Earth is between you and what you're looking at. If the world was flat, the horizon wouldn't be as sharply defined as it is - our vision would just sort of fade away into a hazy mistiness at long distances.
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username3315892
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#31
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(Original post by Vinny C)
Disagree... spacetime is 4D and that doesn't have an edge.
Oh sorry I'm completley mistaken, I was thinking of something else. Can you explain to me what 4D is?
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username3315892
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#32
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(Original post by Good bloke)
Of course they can! How do you think we can see the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars? The latter are so far away that their distance is measured in light-years, rather than miles.
That is true and a valid point. But then again, do you think it could be because they're so big and bright that we can see them? What is your view then, do you agree that if the world was truly flat, we would be able to see from one end to the other? If the earth was not before us, we could?
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Vinny C
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#33
(Original post by Abida.etc)
Oh sorry I'm completley mistaken, I was thinking of something else. Can you explain to me what 4D is?
Only mathematically. If this is what we live in (and we believe it may be) no wonder we sometimes feel sick, lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-sphere
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Vinny C
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#34
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#34
(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
Human vision isn't limited with respect to distance from the things we're trying to look at, although faraway objects become more difficult to distinguish from each other. Our view of them might be blocked by closer objects, or eventually the air itself will block our view, because air isn't completely transparent.

If the horizon was just the hard limit of human vision, we wouldn't be able to see the sun, the moon, or the stars, which are much further away than the horizon. On a clear day, at sea, you can see for miles and miles and miles, but then vision suddenly stops at a very clear boundary where the Earth is between you and what you're looking at. If the world was flat, the horizon wouldn't be as sharply defined as it is - our vision would just sort of fade away into a hazy mistiness at long distances.
Bit like when you forget your glasses, lol. If you watch the Titanic movie, it's noted that the lookouts didn't have their glasses. No wonder it crashed.
Last edited by Vinny C; 1 week ago
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the bear
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#35
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#35
people who believe the earth is flat have cognitive problems.
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Mr.Spock
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#36
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#36
I think the flat earth theory primarily stems from 2 thoughts
1. That you should be able to see the curvature of the Earth
2. The curvature of the Earth should prevent you from seeing certain sites from certain places.

The thing is you won't be able to see the curvature of the Earth unless you are far enough away to see the whole circumference of the Earth simply by symmetry.
Also when you see this footage that shows "no curvature" there are a couple of very reasonably explanations.
1.Its over the sea. Light travels in a straight line when it's in a vacuum, not when it's in air - especially air with a lot of moisture in it. If you submerge your foot and a bit of your leg in the bath and look at your leg it will appear kinked. This is because light travels significantly slower in water. When light travels over the top of the sea it passes through lots of water droplets, which will help curve the light around the Earth.
2. It's over land and the Earth isn't a perfect sphere. Some parts of it are pretty flat, some bits are more curved.
3. You aren't taking the photo from the ground, you are taking it from approximately 5 ft up and taking photos of skyscrapers. That's can be enough to see beyond some of the curvature of the Earth.

If you're confused just think about the sun setting. Does the sun get smaller and smaller (ie getting further and further away from our point on a flat earth) or does it stay pretty big and seem to disappear down under the horizon?
If the Earth were flat you should be able to see the sun over Asia from the UK at night using a telescope, yet you can't.
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username3315892
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#37
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#37
(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
Human vision isn't limited with respect to distance from the things we're trying to look at, although faraway objects become more difficult to distinguish from each other. Our view of them might be blocked by closer objects, or eventually the air itself will block our view, because air isn't completely transparent.

If the horizon was just the hard limit of human vision, we wouldn't be able to see the sun, the moon, or the stars, which are much further away than the horizon. On a clear day, at sea, you can see for miles and miles and miles, but then vision suddenly stops at a very clear boundary where the Earth is between you and what you're looking at. If the world was flat, the horizon wouldn't be as sharply defined as it is - our vision would just sort of fade away into a hazy mistiness at long distances.
Fair point. I am thinking now, how is it that we can see the moon and sun but not miles and miles away. It's weird how we can't apply the same distance we see from earth to the sun, than say from the earth to as far as we can see at sea if the earth was flat.
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username3315892
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#38
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(Original post by Vinny C)
Only mathematically. If this is what we live in (and we believe it may be) no wonder we sometimes feel sick, lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-sphere
I looked at this and my face was like O_O wow. This is intense
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username3315892
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#39
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(Original post by Vinny C)
Bit like when you forget your glasses, lol. If you watch the Titanic movie, it's noted that the lookouts didn't have their glasses. No wonder it crashed.
Lool but even if they did have their glasses, given that the iceberg was not there, your eyes can only see so far right? Like there's no endless limit to our vision but like a boundary as the person aboves said.
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username3315892
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#40
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(Original post by Mr.Spock)
I think the flat earth theory primarily stems from 2 thoughts
1. That you should be able to see the curvature of the Earth
2. The curvature of the Earth should prevent you from seeing certain sites from certain places.

The thing is you won't be able to see the curvature of the Earth unless you are far enough away to see the whole circumference of the Earth simply by symmetry.
Also when you see this footage that shows "no curvature" there are a couple of very reasonably explanations.
1.Its over the sea. Light travels in a straight line when it's in a vacuum, not when it's in air - especially air with a lot of moisture in it. If you submerge your foot and a bit of your leg in the bath and look at your leg it will appear kinked. This is because light travels significantly slower in water. When light travels over the top of the sea it passes through lots of water droplets, which will help curve the light around the Earth.
2. It's over land and the Earth isn't a perfect sphere. Some parts of it are pretty flat, some bits are more curved.
3. You aren't taking the photo from the ground, you are taking it from approximately 5 ft up and taking photos of skyscrapers. That's can be enough to see beyond some of the curvature of the Earth.

If you're confused just think about the sun setting. Does the sun get smaller and smaller (ie getting further and further away from our point on a flat earth) or does it stay pretty big and seem to disappear down under the horizon?
If the Earth were flat you should be able to see the sun over Asia from the UK at night using a telescope, yet you can't.
This is a great explanation. Thank you for this. It puts the whole discussion to bed
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