Why you should learn to drive manual Watch

modifiedgenes
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Rabbit2)
Another disadvantage of automatics, is that nearly all of them run the transmission's 'front pump' off of the engine. This means that there is NO oil pressure in the transmission to apply the clutches if the engine is not running. As a result, you cannot 'push start' the vehicle - either by hand (as later described here) or with another vehicle. If the battery is down, or the starter motor has packed it in, you cannot get it going by coasting it down a grade & putting it into gear. In my student years, when money was tight, i often tried to get the 'last mile' out of batteries and such. Combine that with carelessly leaving the sidelights on whilst driving in the rain, and you can run up a LOT of garage bills for jump starts. Yeh, i carry a set of jumper cables, and have given a LOT more starts than i've received, but you can't always find a willing jump at 3 in the morning during a sleet storm. I have [3 times] 'push started' my MGB in a parking lot BY HAND. This consists of pushing the car to one end of a 'dead level' lot, setting the choke appropriately, pushing the car (either forward or back) by hand as fast as you can, then jumping in, stuffing in the clutch, turning on the ignition, putting it in gear, and easing out the clutch. Whilst doing this (of course), you make sure that the car does not run you over, nor does it hit anything else. Happy starting!!
Don't push-start modern cars, it doesn't do the catalytic converter any good being force fed fuel that isn't ignited. 90% of this forum will have no idea what a choke is, either.

Use jump cables, and if it still won't start, get the AA or RAC out.
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TheMcSame
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#22
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#22
(Original post by notdyls)
that's pretty much what i was trying to get at with the article. there is the belief that nobody's going to be driving manual in the future though so some people don't bother with a manual license.
The belief isn't quite as far fetched as it seems. With plans to ban the sale of new pure petrol and diesel cars in 2040, we may well be looking at a future where the manual is virtually non-existent outside of classics, and old, well-maintained cars that were sold before the ban. Most hybrid cars are sold with auto boxes, though I am aware of a few hybrids that have been sold with manual boxes such as the Honda CR-Z, and I believe Suzuki has sold some hybrids with a manual box as well.

It's hard to say what's going to happen though. But the way I see it, presuming that the market for manual hybrids doesn't pick up, learning in a manual will likely still be a perfectly viable option until the 50's. After which point it might be more of a niche for those who drive older cars as the cars that are the sort of age a new driver goes for will largely be ones sold coming up/after the ban. We might possibly see a switch to the American style of testing in which we don't have to be tested in a manual to be able to drive one if manuals aren't as prevalent. As I said though, it's hard to say what's going to happen. Manufacturers might bring more manual hybrids to market meaning it'll live on for a few more decades until the sale of new hybrids is banned and we're forced to buy fully electric (or alternatively powered) cars.

The death of the manual is coming, but right now I'd say it's still got a few decades left before it really starts to die off.
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notdyls
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#23
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#23
(Original post by TheMcSame)
The belief isn't quite as far fetched as it seems. With plans to ban the sale of new pure petrol and diesel cars in 2040, we may well be looking at a future where the manual is virtually non-existent outside of classics, and old, well-maintained cars that were sold before the ban. Most hybrid cars are sold with auto boxes, though I am aware of a few hybrids that have been sold with manual boxes such as the Honda CR-Z, and I believe Suzuki has sold some hybrids with a manual box as well.

It's hard to say what's going to happen though. But the way I see it, presuming that the market for manual hybrids doesn't pick up, learning in a manual will likely still be a perfectly viable option until the 50's. After which point it might be more of a niche for those who drive older cars as the cars that are the sort of age a new driver goes for will largely be ones sold coming up/after the ban. We might possibly see a switch to the American style of testing in which we don't have to be tested in a manual to be able to drive one if manuals aren't as prevalent. As I said though, it's hard to say what's going to happen. Manufacturers might bring more manual hybrids to market meaning it'll live on for a few more decades until the sale of new hybrids is banned and we're forced to buy fully electric (or alternatively powered) cars.

The death of the manual is coming, but right now I'd say it's still got a few decades left before it really starts to die off.
Manuals in hybrids likely won't catch on, seeing as they don't make much sense given the wide power band that electric motors have, and the fact that a manual will only worsen economy. The future for manuals doesn't look bright, but I think it's still an important skill to have whilst they still are around.
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modifiedgenes
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#24
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#24
(Original post by notdyls)
Manuals in hybrids likely won't catch on, seeing as they don't make much sense given the wide power band that electric motors have, and the fact that a manual will only worsen economy. The future for manuals doesn't look bright, but I think it's still an important skill to have whilst they still are around.
Exactly, you need a computer to manage the engine and electric motor output, a human can't be trusted to do that so all it does is add needless complexity.
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Rabbit2
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#25
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#25
(Original post by modifiedgenes)
Don't push-start modern cars, it doesn't do the catalytic converter any good being force fed fuel that isn't ignited. 90% of this forum will have no idea what a choke is, either.

Use jump cables, and if it still won't start, get the AA or RAC out.
That's fine if you have a> a second vehicle to use jump cables ON, or you have access to a telephone (or other device) to call either the AA or RAC, or someone else. A couple of times, i have been faced with a dead vehicle where i was about 30 miles from the nearest telephone or other vehicle, and the local temperature was between 0 F and -20 F. Under those conditions, you don't have too much time to get something generating heat - or they will find you frozen in the morning. Try "Jackrabbit Flats", Nevada in Feburary for example. Another great spot was about 40 miles out of Anchorage, Alaska (also in Feburary). In Ak, i was asked the 'classic question' on VHF radio: "Ok, where are you"?? I WAS along a (dirt) "road", that had mile markers about every 5 miles. The problem was - i had to find one. This would involve walking something like 2 to 3 miles along the road to try to find one. This is out on (basically) the tundra - no cover, no other vehicles, or buildings. at approx -10 deg F with a 30 mph wind going, not something i felt like doing. GPS wasn't available when i did this. I fear that living in the Uk distorts your view of what most people have available when they are doing 'field engineering'. The entire Uk (land area), amounts to about 10% less than the area of Nevada. That makes for a LOT of empty real estate out there. I used to drive to the closest restaurant in Nevada for lunch. It took 45 minutes (one way). On the trip, i usually didn't see another person or another vehicle moving. Don't break down in the winter + keep your 2-way radio handy and charged!! Cheers.
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Rabbit2
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#26
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#26
(Original post by modifiedgenes)
Don't push-start modern cars, it doesn't do the catalytic converter any good being force fed fuel that isn't ignited. 90% of this forum will have no idea what a choke is, either.

Use jump cables, and if it still won't start, get the AA or RAC out.
Well, the difficulties with that are: a> you must have something to 'jump' off of. If there are no other vehicles for 20 to 50 miles, that won't work. Another is: b> The nearest wired phone or cellphone connection may be 50 or 60 miles away, plus - they may not speak english (or any other language that you do). I have driven in spots where the nearest commercial electric power was 250 miles away. So much for battery chargers!! Try Bosra, Abu Dabhi, other garden spots like that. Cheers.
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PTMalewski
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Rabbit2)
Well, the difficulties with that are: a> you must have something to 'jump' off of. If there are no other vehicles for 20 to 50 miles, that won't work. Another is: b> The nearest wired phone or cellphone connection may be 50 or 60 miles away, plus - they may not speak english (or any other language that you do). I have driven in spots where the nearest commercial electric power was 250 miles away. So much for battery chargers!! Try Bosra, Abu Dabhi, other garden spots like that. Cheers.
The problem is, that lots of cars produced after 00' have two Lambda sensors, one before and one after the converter. If you damage the converter, the latter sensor detects it, and turns the engine into some emergency mode, which can either decrease performance, or increase fuel consumption or both.
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Rabbit2
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#28
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#28
(Original post by PTMalewski)
The problem is, that lots of cars produced after 00' have two Lambda sensors, one before and one after the converter. If you damage the converter, the latter sensor detects it, and turns the engine into some emergency mode, which can either decrease performance, or increase fuel consumption or both.
BOY! Am i glad that all my rolling stock is pre-00, and "non-computerized"!! I do have a diesel Jetta - with a "Bosch" injection system, but it's mechanical & i have figured out how to care for it. Thanks for the warning!!
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ThuggerThugger
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#29
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#29
Who the F wants to drive an auto? Not even real driving
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PTMalewski
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Rabbit2)
BOY! Am i glad that all my rolling stock is pre-00, and "non-computerized"!! I do have a diesel Jetta - with a "Bosch" injection system, but it's mechanical & i have figured out how to care for it. Thanks for the warning!!
This has actually reminded me that after 20 years a converter can't work anyway. It lasts for 100k miles tops. I remember, buying a 1997 car in 2011. One of the first things I had to repair, was the converter, it was just fallen apart to pieces.

(Original post by ThuggerThugger)
Who the F wants to drive an auto? Not even real driving
I don't want to drive any car. I used to be a car guy, I would enter a rally or track day if I had a car and the money, but I'm sick of daily driving and maintaining cars.
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LeMansClivey
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#31
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#31
(Original post by modifiedgenes)
That will invariably be the case because most passenger vehicles will be electric in due course which don't have gearboxes.
Ah but with those future cars, you won’t really be “driving”; you’ll just be a steering wheel attendant supervising a computer.

And that’s gonna suck.
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TheMcSame
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#32
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#32
(Original post by LeMansClivey)
Ah but with those future cars, you won’t really be “driving”; you’ll just be a steering wheel attendant supervising a computer.

And that’s gonna suck.
Autonomous driving is decades away from being ready, no matter how close it may seem. There's a lot of issues that need to be worked out, more so here in Europe where the roads are vastly different from those in the US, where it seems most autonomous cars are being tested.

Autonomous cars might be closer in the US than they are here, but it likely won't be a market-wide rollout like everyone assumes, that's not usually how advancements in car specs happen. What usually happens is that the Luxury market gets it first, then it slowly trickles down. Powered windows for example, have been in use in cars since 1941, some of the first being the Packard 180, the Lincoln Custom and the Cadillac Series 75, all of which were very much top of the range luxury cars at the time (Lincoln and Cadillac have fallen a long way from what they used to be). It never really trickled its way down until... Maybe the 90's? And never really became the expected standard in a car until the late 2000's.

Hell, power seats are another. Two way cropped up in the 40's while four and six way cropped up in the 50's and it still isn't a relatively standard feature amongst cars in general. Powered windows are pretty much standard as it is now, powered seats? Not so much.
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LeMansClivey
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#33
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#33
(Original post by TheMcSame)
Autonomous driving is decades away from being ready, no matter how close it may seem. There's a lot of issues that need to be worked out, more so here in Europe where the roads are vastly different from those in the US, where it seems most autonomous cars are being tested.

Autonomous cars might be closer in the US than they are here, but it likely won't be a market-wide rollout like everyone assumes, that's not usually how advancements in car specs happen. What usually happens is that the Luxury market gets it first, then it slowly trickles down. Powered windows for example, have been in use in cars since 1941, some of the first being the Packard 180, the Lincoln Custom and the Cadillac Series 75, all of which were very much top of the range luxury cars at the time (Lincoln and Cadillac have fallen a long way from what they used to be). It never really trickled its way down until... Maybe the 90's? And never really became the expected standard in a car until the late 2000's.

Hell, power seats are another. Two way cropped up in the 40's while four and six way cropped up in the 50's and it still isn't a relatively standard feature amongst cars in general. Powered windows are pretty much standard as it is now, powered seats? Not so much.
Oh, I understand that. The main problem is that we're beginning to go through the same thing that airline pilots have gone through, where the computers are doing some things for them but not everything, leading to inattention and confusion about what the systems will handle and what they won't.

TBH I'm already finding hybrid / electric cars uninvolving and dull to drive because it feels like your control inputs are screened by a computer before it decides whether to act on them. I don't care if they can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds if it all feels utterly soulless.
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Kyxng
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#34
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Thing is I have never driven an automatic so technically I dont know how to...
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