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Original post by tesconyc
should i just go to a uni with a low entry requirement and get a first as the grade is more important than the uni according to some people
You should be more interested in going to a university that you'd enjoy attending. Going to an "easier" university is no guarantee that you're going to get a first; you might not like the environment as much, you might not feel you are being pushed enough, etc.
Also try to look at the university's links to industry - they can be very helpful in securing a job for after graduation.
Original post by tesconyc
should i just go to a uni with a low entry requirement and get a first as the grade is more important than the uni according to some people
From my experience, it depends largely on the field. I study engineering, and for some there is a perceived difference between 'theoretical' and 'practical' courses - i.e. some unis may have a reputation for having a couese based more on the theory of engineering rather than the actual design and analysis of components, for instance.
In practice, though, I haven't noticed a great deal of difference. It may vary depending on the size of the firm and number of applicants - somewhere like Jaguar Land Rover, for instance, may have to sort the thousands of applications by the tiniest of details, whereas smaller firms won't need to. From my limited experience, other areas of study like law or politics are very reputation-heavy. Different people will have different experiences!
What I would say if you are worried about grade versus reputation is that what matters the most on your CV is - what was the last thing you did? By this logic, the only time the reputation question would be a problem is when landing a grad role. If you can land a decent role from there, if you know how to apply and sell yourself you'll be fine 🙂
As others have mentioned, though, the most important thing is to find a uni that you'll enjoy - not necessarily one that may turn out better in future. Hope that helps!
Theo
(edited 5 years ago)
Despite this being what people say, it is really not true at all. If you actually look at the Foundation Programme allocation stats and the Post F2 career destination stats, there are huge differences between the prospects of graduates of different medical schools. 59% of Keele grads go to their first choice location compared to 94% of Dundee grads. Then 54% of F2s who attended HYMS get ST positions compared to 32% at BSMS.
Medical school graduate stats look good because people use the normal methods to assess them, but in reality you need to you methods specific to medicine, and this makes them look a lot worse.
Medical school graduate stats look good because people use the normal methods to assess them, but in reality you need to you methods specific to medicine, and this makes them look a lot worse.
No, but I was an applicant and looked into it more than what is considered to be the fair share for a medical applicant, especially when I was considering my second try.
Indeed, ST is not the only factor, but when some schools consistently have lower numbers, be it for ST or the rest of the profession or the combination, then that certainly suggests something. To imply otherwise is frankly misrepresenting the study and the profession, and that is not something that medicine needs any more of.
Please take a look at the stats before giving patently false advice, you are a representative for the profession, not a dodgy salesman.
Indeed, ST is not the only factor, but when some schools consistently have lower numbers, be it for ST or the rest of the profession or the combination, then that certainly suggests something. To imply otherwise is frankly misrepresenting the study and the profession, and that is not something that medicine needs any more of.
Please take a look at the stats before giving patently false advice, you are a representative for the profession, not a dodgy salesman.
I think you're missing the point, that is still a case of "where you go to medical schools affects the results". We can't go and say that student quality affects it because the data just isn't there to show causation. We can say that graduates of a certain medical school tend to have better prospects for XYZ, which is the point I'm making. We can't say as an individual you'll be stuck because you went to a certain university, but that applies equally outside of medicine too.
I'm certainly not saying they're asking which medical school you went to and deciding based upon that.
I'm certainly not saying they're asking which medical school you went to and deciding based upon that.
For Science and Medicine. Your undergraduate degree is just a piece of paper that says you're competent in studying X, Y and Z.
To do Science, you need at least a pH.D and I've been told repeatedly by a academics/students that the subject, supervisor and quality of that postgrad work itself is far more important than the institution you went to for your undergraduate degree, as 'studying' is innately a lot different from 'researching'.
Medicine is a vocational degree and there's a cap on the number of places. So you will have very little trouble getting a job as a medic anyway...
Perhaps for the humanities and arts, 'prestige' plays more of a role but certainly for STEM based jobs I don't think it actually matters that much...
To do Science, you need at least a pH.D and I've been told repeatedly by a academics/students that the subject, supervisor and quality of that postgrad work itself is far more important than the institution you went to for your undergraduate degree, as 'studying' is innately a lot different from 'researching'.
Medicine is a vocational degree and there's a cap on the number of places. So you will have very little trouble getting a job as a medic anyway...
Perhaps for the humanities and arts, 'prestige' plays more of a role but certainly for STEM based jobs I don't think it actually matters that much...
(edited 5 years ago)
Of course it's personal if you're giving wrong advice, especially if you are a careers adviser, this is the kind of thing which changes lives and so you must be careful and realistic, this is not a place for optimism.
Guys this was posted on an engineering section. Not sure why you're arguing about medicine...
To answer OPs question people who go to the top engineering universities generally have better prospects, although for engineering the difference isn't as large as with other subjects.
Best advice is to go to a university you feel you'd enjoy as this means you'll generally be more successful in your studies and more likely to get involved in extra-curricular activities which will make you more employable then where you went to uni.
To answer OPs question people who go to the top engineering universities generally have better prospects, although for engineering the difference isn't as large as with other subjects.
Best advice is to go to a university you feel you'd enjoy as this means you'll generally be more successful in your studies and more likely to get involved in extra-curricular activities which will make you more employable then where you went to uni.
Some engineering companies express a preference for graduates with a more practical education but I'm not sure to what extent. You certainly won't be better off with a first from a lesser uni (meaning a uni with lower entry standards or lower competition for a place) as anything above a 2.1 is a tick in a box so to speak.
It sometimes matters, it sometimes doesn't. It depends which uni you're talking, the grade you get, what you're studying, and the job you want to go for. Often, more prestigious unis will have better job prospects because the deliverance of the course is better IMO. I have a psych degree from a "lesser" uni and know someone who went to Cambridge, and although our courses gave us exactly the same basis for graduate entry to the BPS, the things they studied were amazing, the labs, the social experiments, and the contacts that the unis brought it. Contacts and experience can get you roles, and if you're proactive you can get these no matter which uni you go to. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all for every subject, but it's just an example of one of many factors that you may not have thought about. I think "better" unis are a better platform, and make it easier to flourish, but that's not to say that a) it doesn't still take a huge amount of work and b) that you can't do that at a lesser uni, but under your own motivation.
(edited 5 years ago)
I didn't change the goal posts at all. The original statement I disagreed with was "for medicine, the place of the degree doesn't matter much.".That disagreement is accurate unless you're saying the results do not matter. The place you go to significantly affects what you are likely to do after your degree.
You changed the goal posts to "as an individual, the medical school you go to doesn't matter much". That may well be reasonably accurate, but it's impossible to measure.
Popular opinion doesn't make it right, and is really a poor method of trying to argue a point. itsmith is also a prospective medical student and so is not adding a higher level of qualification on the matter either.
The UKFPO is saying it, not some random person on the internet, these sources are a quick google search away and you haven't even bothered to do that...
http://foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/Stats%20and%20Facts%20FP%202018_0.pdf
http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/2017%20F2%20Career%20Destinations%20Report_0.pdf
I haven't stated anywhere that I think people should go to elite universities, in fact my examples were literally of the opposite unless Dundee and HYMS have become the new Oxbridge since I last checked. You can also ask anyone in this forum and they will know I regularly argue against going to prestigious universities for engineering, places like UWE and Oxford Brookes give fantastic educations in this area. But equally I know that not every uni for engineering gives a great education in engineering, or give a good bang-for-grades, and the same applies to medicine too. The difference being that for medicine this is much more easily proved by numbers and disproved by mouth, while for engineering it is somewhat proven by numbers and this is further backed up by word of mouth from companies and academics.
You changed the goal posts to "as an individual, the medical school you go to doesn't matter much". That may well be reasonably accurate, but it's impossible to measure.
Popular opinion doesn't make it right, and is really a poor method of trying to argue a point. itsmith is also a prospective medical student and so is not adding a higher level of qualification on the matter either.
The UKFPO is saying it, not some random person on the internet, these sources are a quick google search away and you haven't even bothered to do that...
http://foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/Stats%20and%20Facts%20FP%202018_0.pdf
http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/2017%20F2%20Career%20Destinations%20Report_0.pdf
I haven't stated anywhere that I think people should go to elite universities, in fact my examples were literally of the opposite unless Dundee and HYMS have become the new Oxbridge since I last checked. You can also ask anyone in this forum and they will know I regularly argue against going to prestigious universities for engineering, places like UWE and Oxford Brookes give fantastic educations in this area. But equally I know that not every uni for engineering gives a great education in engineering, or give a good bang-for-grades, and the same applies to medicine too. The difference being that for medicine this is much more easily proved by numbers and disproved by mouth, while for engineering it is somewhat proven by numbers and this is further backed up by word of mouth from companies and academics.
Original post by Helloworld_95
I didn't change the goal posts at all. The original statement I disagreed with was "for medicine, the place of the degree doesn't matter much.".That disagreement is accurate unless you're saying the results do not matter. The place you go to significantly affects what you are likely to do after your degree.
You changed the goal posts to "as an individual, the medical school you go to doesn't matter much". That may well be reasonably accurate, but it's impossible to measure.
Popular opinion doesn't make it right, and is really a poor method of trying to argue a point. itsmith is also a prospective medical student and so is not adding a higher level of qualification on the matter either.
The UKFPO is saying it, not some random person on the internet, these sources are a quick google search away and you haven't even bothered to do that...
http://foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/Stats%20and%20Facts%20FP%202018_0.pdf
http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/2017%20F2%20Career%20Destinations%20Report_0.pdf
I haven't stated anywhere that I think people should go to elite universities, in fact my examples were literally of the opposite unless Dundee and HYMS have become the new Oxbridge since I last checked. You can also ask anyone in this forum and they will know I regularly argue against going to prestigious universities for engineering, places like UWE and Oxford Brookes give fantastic educations in this area. But equally I know that not every uni for engineering gives a great education in engineering, or give a good bang-for-grades, and the same applies to medicine too. The difference being that for medicine this is much more easily proved by numbers and disproved by mouth, while for engineering it is somewhat proven by numbers and this is further backed up by word of mouth from companies and academics.
You changed the goal posts to "as an individual, the medical school you go to doesn't matter much". That may well be reasonably accurate, but it's impossible to measure.
Popular opinion doesn't make it right, and is really a poor method of trying to argue a point. itsmith is also a prospective medical student and so is not adding a higher level of qualification on the matter either.
The UKFPO is saying it, not some random person on the internet, these sources are a quick google search away and you haven't even bothered to do that...
http://foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/Stats%20and%20Facts%20FP%202018_0.pdf
http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/2017%20F2%20Career%20Destinations%20Report_0.pdf
I haven't stated anywhere that I think people should go to elite universities, in fact my examples were literally of the opposite unless Dundee and HYMS have become the new Oxbridge since I last checked. You can also ask anyone in this forum and they will know I regularly argue against going to prestigious universities for engineering, places like UWE and Oxford Brookes give fantastic educations in this area. But equally I know that not every uni for engineering gives a great education in engineering, or give a good bang-for-grades, and the same applies to medicine too. The difference being that for medicine this is much more easily proved by numbers and disproved by mouth, while for engineering it is somewhat proven by numbers and this is further backed up by word of mouth from companies and academics.
This is a good source that shows better comparisons than what you are using:
https://www.gmc-uk.org/education/reports-and-reviews/progression-reports
Also you weren't really using the important stats in that doc. For example the average score per student is clearly better than which students got their first choice job, given that job choice is based on those points.
I've read a lot about this and could talk more but honestly this is off topic I think we should leave it to the engineers.
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