Brexit - your perspective over the years Watch

Burton Bridge
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Notoriety)
WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS ARROGANT"
I never called you arrogant
If your going to lie at least edit your posts so people can't see you as a blue faced liar.

I'm a new user well done, what relivance does this have? Why don't you start actually debating the points of the debate instead of acting in a condensending manner clutching at anything you and everything to put others down
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ColinDent
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#22
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#22
(Original post by CoffeeAndPolitics)
Certainly... Spelmen-Dromey amendment is the last one that will explicitly rule out no-Brexit.
Not yet but I'm certain parliament wants to do so.
But then parliament has wanted to stop brexit from the off.
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DJKL
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
It's opinions like this that make me chuckle the most. Can you not see how ridiculous you sound? How prejudiced and naive you sound that somehow you feel your opinion is more valuable because of a peice of paper, you may or not get at the end of your course, you actually think this makes you superior and gives tmyou the right to dismiss and belittle the opinion of people with greater life experiences and in many cases skills than yourself.

Usually those whom have little understanding think they know more - Giordano Bruno
The very nub of the entire Brexit debate, and I use the word debate with some concern, is let's ignore the experts, my view is as good as yours, etc. At a superficial level very admirable but in the context of a very technical discussion re the pros and cons of leaving the EU, where the implications of how WTO actually works, the requirements re product conformity and testing, the impact on an international treaty etc, there is a fairly decent argument to be made that all opinions are not as valid as one another, quite a few are terribly ill informed and that includes most of our political class and a large swathe of our media; anyone taking their understanding of what is involved from these sources, without actually reading the primary documents, really does not have a opinion based on much more than parroting said illinformed nonsense.
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Burton Bridge
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#24
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(Original post by DJKL)
The very nub of the entire Brexit debate, and I use the word debate with some concern, is let's ignore the experts, my view is as good as yours, etc. At a superficial level very admirable but in the context of a very technical discussion re the pros and cons of leaving the EU, where the implications of how WTO actually works, the requirements re product conformity and testing, the impact on an international treaty etc, there is a fairly decent argument to be made that all opinions are not as valid as one another, quite a few are terribly ill informed and that includes most of our political class and a large swathe of our media; anyone taking their understanding of what is involved from these sources, without actually reading the primary documents, really does not have a opinion based on much more than parroting said illinformed nonsense.
I have not said ignore anybody?

I'd go along with much of what you say to be honest, you make good points. Certainly not all opinions are as valid as the next, it's up to the listener to look into the view point of the person speaking, access their possible biast, links to certain causes or whatever.

An expert can be in many forms and generally genuine educated intelligent people don't put others down to try to elevate themselves.
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DJKL
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#25
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I have not said ignore anybody?

I'd go along with much of what you say to be honest, you make good points. Certainly not all opinions are as valid as the next, it's up to the listener to look into the view point of the person speaking, access their possible biast, links to certain causes or whatever.

An expert can be in many forms and generally genuine educated intelligent people don't put others down to try to elevate themselves.
I did not say you did, I said the problem with the entire Brexit process has been a devaluation of experts.

I do have a solution for Brexit- we follow the Premier League, if you do not have enough home grown talent buy it in from abroad, With this in mind we probably ought to offer Barnier say £50m a year on a four year contract to negotiate Brexit for the UK.
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Burton Bridge
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#26
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Funny you mention the comparison with the Premier league we are certainly short of quality politicians you will meet no argument from me there!

I don't think we have devauled experts opinions at all, in fact there are many expert economists that are pro Brexit. There are also some whom are interlinked with the EU and there are some whom are anti Brexit with no links to the EU at all.

It's not as one sided as the certain people like to say, we need to listen to all sides and make our own minds up.
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ColinDent
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#27
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#27
(Original post by DJKL)
I did not say you did, I said the problem with the entire Brexit process has been a devaluation of experts.

I do have a solution for Brexit- we follow the Premier League, if you do not have enough home grown talent buy it in from abroad, With this in mind we probably ought to offer Barnier say £50m a year on a four year contract to negotiate Brexit for the UK.
If you're going down the Premier League route then what has actually happened is that yes we it has attracted some very good foreign talent, but teams have also bought over a whole load of decidedly average players often to the detriment of home grown players.
Sound familiar?
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Effaiii
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Toriel)
Being a european immigrant here in UK I just hope I don't get deported :lol:
😂😂same thing
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ColinDent
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Effaiii)
😂😂same thing
You won't, don't think anyone wants to see deportations, well certainly not the vast majority of us ( leavers that is)
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Burton Bridge
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#30
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#30
(Original post by ColinDent)
You won't, don't think anyone wants to see deportations, well certainly not the vast majority of us ( leavers that is)
Agreed
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NJA
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#31
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#31
This program (from 19:48) looks at the recent history of Britain in Europe, concluding in the "inexitability" of Brexit.
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Abaddon rex
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#32
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(Original post by StrawberryDreams)




Brexit

Everyone is talking about it, but how does the TSR community actually feel about it since this all started back in 2016?



Over the past three years we have asked for your opinions on Brexit and whether you would choose to remain in or leave the EU.



We've put a poll out each year asking you how you would vote, both before and after the referendum. We then collated your votes from these poll to see if there had been a change in opinion the further we get toward the March 29th deadline. We've seen that over these three years, there has been a shift towards more people wanting to remain in the EU.






Attachment 795714








What do you think about these results? Is it something you expected, or did you expect more of a change in opinion?



Let us know your thoughts below!





Never even saw the poll, so it’s hardly conclusive.
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Plagioclase
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#33
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It's gone pretty much how I expected it to, except the government (and opposition) have been even more breathtakingly incompetent than I'd have thought possible. I genuinely do not understand how, two years on, the majority of our parliament and public still haven't appeared to realise that the UK isn't a superpower any more and that the EU is considerably more concerned about maintaining its union rather than appeasing a stroppy third-party. This country thinks it's in a war but it isn't - if the UK is holding a gun, then it's a gun trained at her own head.

The only good thing that can possibly come out of this is if the country learns some much-needed humility which things inevitably go catastrophically, and that at some point in the future the criminals that have designed this disaster pay for it, although the latter is wishful thinking.
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04MR17
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#34
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#34
I love how nostalgic we're being when it hasn't even happened yet.
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Axiomasher
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#35
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#35
Name:  brexit dynamic.jpg
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ByEeek
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I think you are looking at the EU with Rose coloured glasses and looking at your own country through the bowl of the toilet, neither vision is giving your the reality of the situation in my opinion.
Not at all. The UK is an amazing country and the EU provides a lot opportunity. Once we leave, that opportunity will be vastly reduced. Not only in the opportunities for work but also in opportunities to easily trade with our closest, richest and most aligned neighbours.

Ok, yes, they [the EU] are not as accountable as our own government but on scale of 1 to 10 where 10 is very accountable, I would say that our government are at around 2. The EU is perhaps at 0.5-1. In the UK I get 1 vote a year and generally speaking, it counts for nothing as we live in a safe seat. At least my vote for my EU representative is representative.
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Kallisto
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#37
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Looks like that the majority is able to think rationally. I personally can't see advantages for Britain, on the contrary:

It comes to 25% inflation of the pound thanks to the decrease of trade partners what is connected with a more expensive export and import for Britain because of customs duties as consequence for leaving EU.

And just on top of that, students from Britain have a rough ride to study abroad and vice versa students who are coming abroad in Britain, as students cannot used programs like Erasmus to get support, as Erasmus is intended for EU countries.

My mind was never changed: Remain!
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ColinDent
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Kallisto)
Looks like that the majority is able to think rationally. I personally can't see advantages for Britain, on the contrary:

It comes to 25% inflation of the pound thanks to the decrease of trade partners what is connected with a more expensive export and import for Britain because of customs duties as consequence for leaving EU.

And just on top of that, students from Britain have a rough ride to study abroad and vice versa students who are coming abroad in Britain, as students cannot used programs like Erasmus to get support, as Erasmus is intended for EU countries.

My mind was never changed: Remain!
There is of course no evidence for any of what you say
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ByEeek
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#39
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#39
(Original post by ColinDent)
There is of course no evidence for any of what you say
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46510636

If we leave without a vote, the pound will hit the buffers. It will be worthless. As a result everything we import will cost more and since most of what we consume is imported that will hit the price of everything from basic food items to luxary cars. The result of increased prices is increased inflation which then causes interest rates to go up. Higher interest rates means higher borrowing costs which will hit the housing market but that won't help anyone because despite a fall in prices, first time buyers will not be able to afford more expensive mortgages and anyway, the banks will withdraw lending on the basis of falling prices and increased uncertainty.

In other words - hard Brexit will be a massive bust. And when rich Brexiteers who have offshored all their wealth say that there will be short term pain, they are actaully talking 5 - 10 years at the least. What will your life be like in 10 years time? 10 years ago, I didn't have a house or kids or a wife. Now I have the lot.

PS - we haven't recovered from the last recession that happened 11 years ago! You are wanting to condemn us to another 10 - 15 years of austerity.
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ColinDent
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#40
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#40
(Original post by ByEeek)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46510636

If we leave without a vote, the pound will hit the buffers. It will be worthless. As a result everything we import will cost more and since most of what we consume is imported that will hit the price of everything from basic food items to luxary cars. The result of increased prices is increased inflation which then causes interest rates to go up. Higher interest rates means higher borrowing costs which will hit the housing market but that won't help anyone because despite a fall in prices, first time buyers will not be able to afford more expensive mortgages and anyway, the banks will withdraw lending on the basis of falling prices and increased uncertainty.

In other words - hard Brexit will be a massive bust. And when rich Brexiteers who have offshored all their wealth say that there will be short term pain, they are actaully talking 5 - 10 years at the least. What will your life be like in 10 years time? 10 years ago, I didn't have a house or kids or a wife. Now I have the lot.

PS - we haven't recovered from the last recession that happened 11 years ago! You are wanting to condemn us to another 10 - 15 years of austerity.
Ah you're confusing evidence with opinion.
And the person to whom I was replying did not mention a "hard" brexit.
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