How has Trump done at the half-way point in his presidency? Watch

NYU℠
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#61
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#61
(Original post by zhog)
You're only concerned with frustrating Trump, were the wall a Democrat idea and you'd be singing a different tune altogether. As much as they used to, plenty of clips with their leading figures knocking illegal immigration big time when it was the most lucrative thing to say. Hillary was dead against gay marriage once, can you believe that?

I'll come quietly if you can find any trace of a Border Patrol agent who doesn't think walls work, the only ones I've heard think they do. Never heard one say that Catch and Release was ever a good idea either but maybe they just don't fancy the added workload it generates.
(1) Walls don't work because:
(a) They negatively impact net migration. People are less likely to return to their home countries if there is a wall in place. A professor from Princeton has released his research on this area.
(b) Airplanes fly over walls. Once you're in the country, all you have to do is overstay your leave to remain. Overstaying leave to remain isn't a criminal offense, either.
(c) Ladders exist.
(d) A wall like that in Israel works because they have the ability to police the border. The US border cannot be continually policed in the same manner. Indeed, it's the policing that's the relevant and effective measure, not the wall in and of itself.

(2) The accusation you've made elsewhere that democrats are in favor of, or want to actively facilitate, 'illegal immigration' is baseless. Don't make useless accusations that constitute strawman non-sense.

(3) The amount of funding he's requesting is insufficient to complete a wall. The wall will cost anywhere from $8b to $70b. An $8b budget is hugely and hilariously and massively incorrect unless they're making a wall out of toothpicks or some such non-sense. The cost of materials alone would likely exceed $8b. Then you have the issue of land acquisition (you have to pay to seize land); labor; cost to ship materials; etc.

(4) He has failed to take the necessary steps in order to build a wall. Has he ordered environmental impact studies? No. Has he ordered any assessments into how to build a wall over e.g. a river? No.
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username1738683
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#62
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#62
(Original post by NYU℠)
(2) The accusation you've made elsewhere that democrats are in favor of, or want to actively facilitate, 'illegal immigration' is baseless. Don't make useless accusations that constitute strawman non-sense.
I'm not really inclined to spending time on whether walls work or not, the ones I'm surrounded by right now do a good job. As for the accusations that the Democrats are intent on facilitating illegal immigration will require more than your 'arguments' to go away, especially when you make none to base it on.

Catch and release, sanctuary cities, obstructing ICE as much as possible, referring to them as the KKK as Kamala and other leftist riff-raff are capable of, all that is more than indicative that there's nothing else on their minds. Pretend not to in public, go about it the backway.

Give us one, just one example of what the Democrats plans for curbing illegal immigration are. I don't believe there is one to be found but good luck, if you bring up the 'electronic surveillance' at the border as one I'm just going to ignore it.
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Pinkisk
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#63
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#63
(Original post by zhog)
The problem with that logic is that, according to it, nobody would have locks on their front doors. Or even have them at all, why bother when intruders can go round the back or through a window?
In a rational, logical world this reply would put an end to the discussion but sadly we do not live in a rational, logical world. No, we live in a world full of people who blindly follow certain beliefs that are unwilling to bend to the truth.
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Just my opinion
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#64
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#64
The Democrats and the left in the US only care about the wall because it will work.
If they thought for a minute that it wouldn't work they wouldn't be running around by the hairs on fire.
But let's be honest here, it's all about demographics and future numbers of democrat voters.
If it was hundreds of thousands of assumed
future Republican voters streaming across the border everybody on the left, the Democrats including Nancy and Chuckie would be down there now building it Brick by Brick with their own bare hands.

(Original post by Andrew97)
Doesn’t matter what he does, he will always be criticised. I bet some would find a way to criticise him if he saved a disabled baby from a burning building.
Let's be honest, right now Trump could find the cure for cancer and the first thing most on the left would say is "See, he is racist!
Why hasn't he found a cure for sickle cell anemia?"
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NYU℠
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#65
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#65
(Original post by zhog)
I'm not really inclined to spending time on whether walls work or not, the ones I'm surrounded by right now do a good job. As for the accusations that the Democrats are intent on facilitating illegal immigration will require more than your 'arguments' to go away, especially when you make none to base it on.

Catch and release, sanctuary cities, obstructing ICE as much as possible, referring to them as the KKK as Kamala and other leftist riff-raff are capable of, all that is more than indicative that there's nothing else on their minds. Pretend not to in public, go about it the backway.

Give us one, just one example of what the Democrats plans for curbing illegal immigration are. I don't believe there is one to be found but good luck, if you bring up the 'electronic surveillance' at the border as one I'm just going to ignore it.
(1) You cannot moan about a wall and then refuse to acknowledge the issues surrounding the wall -- namely that it is known to be ineffective.

(2) You have nothing to support your accusation, so your accusation is empty.

Example: 'Obstructing ICE.' I assume you are referring to so-called 'sanctuary cities.' Perhaps you need an education in US Constitutional law, then.

Pursuant to the doctrine of non-commandeering, as set out in New York v. United States; Printz v. United States; and Murphy v. NCAA, the Federal Government is not allowed to commandeer state actors for the purpose of carrying out federal policy. That means that the Federal Government is not allowed to mandate that local police facilitate ICE or it duties. Any ICE-related policy enforcement must be conducted by ICE; not local authorities. Furthermore, it is unconstitutional for local police to demand knowledge related to/about your immigration status, for example. (I.e. you are not required to answer any questions such as "Where are from? Are you a citizen? How did you enter the country?")

(3) You cannot ignore something just because you do not like it. If that's the case, we can ignore everything you say about the wall, right? In fact, Democrats have put forward proposals related to border security -- just check the news. Meetings have even happened today regarding this exact issue (do catch up). Proposals include more ankle monitoring, more investigators, counselling, more customs officers, new imaging technology, more judges, etc. Just because you haven't kept up with the news doesn't mean that these proposals don't exist.
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NYU℠
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Just my opinion)
The Democrats and the left in the US only care about the wall because it will work.
If they thought for a minute that it wouldn't work they wouldn't be running around by the hairs on fire.
But let's be honest here, it's all about demographics and future numbers of democrat voters.
If it was hundreds of thousands of assumed
future Republican voters streaming across the border everybody on the left, the Democrats including Nancy and Chuckie would be down there now building it Brick by Brick with their own bare hands.
This is unsupported non-sense.

In fact, the majority of experts agree that a wall won't work. Not only because things like ladders and airplanes exist, but it will also affect net migration. Probably should read the actual opinions of these researchers, huh?
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gjd800
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#67
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#67
(Original post by NYU℠)
(1) Walls don't work because:
(a) They negatively impact net migration. People are less likely to return to their home countries if there is a wall in place. A professor from Princeton has released his research on this area.
(b) Airplanes fly over walls. Once you're in the country, all you have to do is overstay your leave to remain. Overstaying leave to remain isn't a criminal offense, either.
(c) Ladders exist.
(d) A wall like that in Israel works because they have the ability to police the border. The US border cannot be continually policed in the same manner. Indeed, it's the policing that's the relevant and effective measure, not the wall in and of itself.

(2) The accusation you've made elsewhere that democrats are in favor of, or want to actively facilitate, 'illegal immigration' is baseless. Don't make useless accusations that constitute strawman non-sense.

(3) The amount of funding he's requesting is insufficient to complete a wall. The wall will cost anywhere from $8b to $70b. An $8b budget is hugely and hilariously and massively incorrect unless they're making a wall out of toothpicks or some such non-sense. The cost of materials alone would likely exceed $8b. Then you have the issue of land acquisition (you have to pay to seize land); labor; cost to ship materials; etc.

(4) He has failed to take the necessary steps in order to build a wall. Has he ordered environmental impact studies? No. Has he ordered any assessments into how to build a wall over e.g. a river? No.
Is it not the case that the vast majority of illegals are visa overstayers that flew or drove in... legally? I'm sure I read something about that the other week. You will know better than I!
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NYU℠
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#68
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#68
(Original post by gjd800)
Is it not the case that the vast majority of illegals are visa overstayers that flew or drove in... legally? I'm sure I read something about that the other week. You will know better than I!
Don't bring you knowledge of facts and rationality to this debate!

You are correct, the majority of 'illegal immigrants' are those persons who entered legally and overstayed their leave to remain. Overstaying one's leave to remain is NOT a criminal offense, it's a regulatory offense, like a parking/speeding ticket.
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gjd800
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#69
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#69
(Original post by NYU℠)
Don't bring you knowledge of facts and rationality to this debate!

You are correct, the majority of 'illegal immigrants' are those persons who entered legally and overstayed their leave to remain. Overstaying one's leave to remain is NOT a criminal offense, it's a regulatory offense, like a parking/speeding ticket.
I thought that something like this was the case! One of my mates is always posting about it (he's in Atlanta), and he is usually fastidious in checking his sources.
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Notoriety
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#70
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#70
(Original post by NYU℠)
This is unsupported non-sense.

In fact, the majority of experts agree that a wall won't work. Not only because things like ladders and airplanes exist, but it will also affect net migration. Probably should read the actual opinions of these researchers, huh?
Methinks that you're a busy lad and have not had the time to consult what the experts think, so how do you know that they think a wall would be ineffective? Might it be that the WSJ and NYT have parroted this line and you've gobbled it up like a hungry boy?

The wall might be daft, but I am deeply cynical and this whole debate is coloured by the anti-Trump and pro-Democrat silly rhetoric which fills American public life and now this board.
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username1738683
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#71
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#71
(Original post by NYU℠)
(3) You cannot ignore something just because you do not like it. If that's the case, we can ignore everything you say about the wall, right? In fact, Democrats have put forward proposals related to border security -- just check the news. Meetings have even happened today regarding this exact issue (do catch up). Proposals include more ankle monitoring, more investigators, counselling, more customs officers, new imaging technology, more judges, etc. Just because you haven't kept up with the news doesn't mean that these proposals don't exist.
You fall for it too easily, perhaps because of that derangement syndrome and Trump. All that stuff you mention is no more than a front and I couldn't care less whether you disagree or not. Yeah, a lot more counselling will go a long way to deter illegal immigration.

You and yours are simply advocating the preservation of the state of affairs on the border, if not increasing it. You all want it to be that way.
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username1738683
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Palmyra)
See a doctor.
Good to hear, what time is your appointment?
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Pinkisk
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#73
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#73
(Original post by NYU℠)

You are correct, the majority of 'illegal immigrants' are those persons who entered legally and overstayed their leave to remain. Overstaying one's leave to remain is NOT a criminal offense, it's a regulatory offense, like a parking/speeding ticket.
1.2 million legal immgirants entered the US in 2016. In 2017 the number of illegal immgirants entering the US from Mexico alone was roughly 7 million.

You and your friend claim that the majority of immigrants coming into the US are of legal origin, people who overstay their visa, when the stats show that they do not make up 1/7th of the population of illegal immigrants coming from Mexico alone...

With all due respect you are a great example for what I mentioned in my previous comment. You are a blind follower of a beleif that is unwilling to bend to the truth. Your statements are as far from being factual and rational as possible.
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XKangaotiCX
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#74
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#74
(Original post by StrawberryDreams)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38663043

How has Trump performed in his first two years as president? This article looks at some of his campaign promises, and how he has actually delivered on them. He seems to be delivering on some aspects of his promises by using a variety of techniques, but others are proving more difficult and are now causing issues - such as the unprecedentedly long shut down of the US government over the wall bordering Mexico and the US.

What do you think of Trump's delivery of policies over the last two years? How do you think the next two years will go? Let us know what you think below!
That question really stumped me, until I realised it said presidency instead of pregnancy. Still, I can't say pretend I know what Im talking about when giving my opinion because I don't.
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Palmyra
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Notoriety)
We also have a summit with leaders of the Taliban coming up, which could see a ceasefire in Afghanistan. Who knows.
After spending trillions of dollars and the blood of thousands of US soldiers to remove the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Taliban now control 70% of Afghanistan and Trump is reduced to negotiating with - thus legitimising - that same Taliban.

I hope your standard for success is higher as a lawyer than it is for Trump (i.e. not wistfully predicated on a "[w]ho knows").
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Mess.
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#76
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#76
(Original post by hello_shawn)
It's funny how the MSM keep shouting down achievements by conservative parties in office yet do not see the failures of their liberal idols as such
You do realise that the media is dominated by right of centre and right wing broadcasts and papers don’t you?
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NYU℠
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Notoriety)
Methinks that you're a busy lad and have not had the time to consult what the experts think, so how do you know that they think a wall would be ineffective? Might it be that the WSJ and NYT have parroted this line and you've gobbled it up like a hungry boy?

The wall might be daft, but I am deeply cynical and this whole debate is coloured by the anti-Trump and pro-Democrat silly rhetoric which fills American public life and now this board.
(1) It negatively impacts net migration.
(2) The majority of ‘illegal immigrants’ don’t cross the border illegally. They overstay leave to remain.
(3) Without sufficient resources to police the length wall, a wall can be easily crossed with something as simple as ladders.

This research is available online, through news sources, or academic sources. Methinks that you should probably look it up before accusing me of not knowing it.
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NYU℠
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Pinkisk)
1.2 million legal immgirants entered the US in 2016. In 2017 the number of illegal immgirants entering the US from Mexico alone was roughly 7 million.

You and your friend claim that the majority of immigrants coming into the US are of legal origin, people who overstay their visa, when the stats show that they do not make up 1/7th of the population of illegal immigrants coming from Mexico alone...

With all due respect you are a great example for what I mentioned in my previous comment. You are a blind follower of a beleif that is unwilling to bend to the truth. Your statements are as far from being factual and rational as possible.
I hate it when people think they know what they’re talking about, who make up numbers and don’t bother to properly fact check. First though, let me quote you: “You are a blind follower of a belief that is unwilling to bend to the truth. Your statement are as far from being factual and rational as possible.” You apparently need to do significantly more research before attempting to call others ignorant of the facts.


In 2017 the number of illegal immigrants entering the US from Mexico alone was roughly 7 million.
You must get your alternative facts from the same place as Trump and Kellyanne. Try actually consulting data.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4be4afa681a6

Wow. That looks nothing like 7 million. In fact, it looks a lot more like less than half a million.

http://cmsny.org/publications/jmhs-v...s-border-wall/

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/05/22/...verstay-report

https://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/...ats-Report.pdf

Yeah, I think we’ve sufficiently demonstrated that you’re the perfect example of “blind follower” who doesn’t bother to actually check facts. In fact, 7 million is close to the total ‘illegal immigrant’ population of the entire United States. Your claim that 7 million people entered illegally in a single year is patently outrageous to the point where you lose any sense of credibility.

Let’s also note that you don’t even understand the difference between a ‘visa’ and ‘leave to remain.’
Last edited by NYU℠; 3 weeks ago
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NYU℠
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#79
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#79
(Original post by zhog)
You fall for it too easily, perhaps because of that derangement syndrome and Trump. All that stuff you mention is no more than a front and I couldn't care less whether you disagree or not. Yeah, a lot more counselling will go a long way to deter illegal immigration.

You and yours are simply advocating the preservation of the state of affairs on the border, if not increasing it. You all want it to be that way.
This is accusation without substance or merit.

If that’s what was desired, why did migration fall under Obama?
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Fullofsurprises
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#80
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(Original post by gjd800)
Is it not the case that the vast majority of illegals are visa overstayers that flew or drove in... legally? I'm sure I read something about that the other week. You will know better than I!
This is the case in most developed countries, including the US.

The wall is a huge load of bunk. It's designed to appeal to the Christian Right voters who put Trump in (after his very late and inexplicable conversion to some kind of, er, Christian thingy, whatever) and it's based on Netanyahu's Israel Great Wall, which of course also feeds into the Christian Right manias. Illegal immigration from Mexico has in fact been falling in recent years as the Mexican economy (despite the drug wars) steadily expands, not least with all the US businesses relocating there, another trend that Trump has completely failed to halt.

Building a continuous concrete barrier that goes deep into the subsurface as well would be hugely damaging to the ecology of whole regions and would halt important animal migrations.

It would also be a sign of the US drawing in on itself and of collapse, much as the Roman mania for wall building along the frontiers in the 2nd century AD presaged the collapse of that empire.
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