How has Trump done at the half-way point in his presidency?
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Dammit, if only we'd known the CATO think-tank had settled the question... Very popular among political students, presumably. This is it, where is the flippin' evidence that 'walls don't work'? You don't think any of these sources is anything other than impartial and objective, do you?
I could quickly go on You Tube and put together a few vids with real people in them, people affected by very real problems in the streets of every american city and who make no bones of how much they agree with Trump. As it is, you can look for it yourself if you like. Won't take long.
I could quickly go on You Tube and put together a few vids with real people in them, people affected by very real problems in the streets of every american city and who make no bones of how much they agree with Trump. As it is, you can look for it yourself if you like. Won't take long.
See, for instance, the many ACLU lawsuits currently pending regarding ICE -- which should be available on their website.
Good old ACLU, they were the ultimate upholders of free-speech in the US for a century and then Charlottesville broke their backs. Now, they have been incorporated by their new financial backers. In the 70s, they defended some stormtrooper wanting to march down a Jewish neighborhood in full Nazi regalia as much as they defended every weirdo tt surfaced. Not only that, they put a Jewish lawyer on the case and all! Look at them now, a weirdo too far for them:
https://www.aclu.org/
All walls work to some extent, everyone who says they don't just doesn't like them at all. You trust your sources too much for impartiality, they're all funded somehow. Nobody's impartial about Trump these days, other than myself and another bloke down the pub.
(edited 5 years ago)
No need for it, what point do you think that makes?
Look, let's just forget the whole thing. I have to go check the walls.
It is rather more arrogant of you to shut people down as portraying them as ill-informed and you the fount of knowledge and wisdom; such that you should talk and they should listen. This might not be your purpose, but it seems to be the effect of your debating style. E.g. "Someone doesn’t understand what academic research is or does."
You might do polsci, but your research is not in this -- I have read your research and the wall didn't crop up. You also have made other claims, e.g. civil service and name dropping, which I think we can accept were a little misleading. With regard to the former, you tried to portray my point as something not supported by academic commentary when a 3-second Google proved it was. So you've appealed to academic authority in the past, to shut me up who has about as much experience as academic law as you, when you'd seemingly not consulted the academic authority.
But beyond this diss, which I am compelled to follow up on, the point is rather important (if I am correct). Because it means the whole left-attack around Trump is based on a hitherto unverified claim of expert consensus. A claim promulgated by publications who are not too interested in giving Trump the benefit of the doubt, and are rather interested in discrediting him at any opportunity. This is not to say the wall is effective, but I think we should be a bit more questioning of publications before accepting their conclusions -- or we have an echo chamber.
Lastly, I don't think we should aim to shut down discussion, on these mixed and controversial issues, by pointing to our qualifications or the academic tradition we've experienced. We especially shouldn't do it when we don't have a background in the particular issue.
You might do polsci, but your research is not in this -- I have read your research and the wall didn't crop up. You also have made other claims, e.g. civil service and name dropping, which I think we can accept were a little misleading. With regard to the former, you tried to portray my point as something not supported by academic commentary when a 3-second Google proved it was. So you've appealed to academic authority in the past, to shut me up who has about as much experience as academic law as you, when you'd seemingly not consulted the academic authority.
But beyond this diss, which I am compelled to follow up on, the point is rather important (if I am correct). Because it means the whole left-attack around Trump is based on a hitherto unverified claim of expert consensus. A claim promulgated by publications who are not too interested in giving Trump the benefit of the doubt, and are rather interested in discrediting him at any opportunity. This is not to say the wall is effective, but I think we should be a bit more questioning of publications before accepting their conclusions -- or we have an echo chamber.
Lastly, I don't think we should aim to shut down discussion, on these mixed and controversial issues, by pointing to our qualifications or the academic tradition we've experienced. We especially shouldn't do it when we don't have a background in the particular issue.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by NYU℠
Either your points here is (1) empty or (2) already dealt with.
(1) We should question sources. If this is your claim, it’s empty.
Agreed. A source should never be merely taken at face value. Anyone doing so would not be ‘doing’ research properly. Results should be checked or verified. And so on.
(2) We should look to more than a single source. If this is your claim, it’s already dealt with.
Agreed. You’ll find that the publications regarding the effectiveness of the wall range from right to left. It’s not like I’m over here cherry-picking only left-wing sources without having done appropriate diligence. If you had bothered to do the research you’ve accused me of not doing, you would already be aware of the fact that there is consensus on both sides of the aisle that a wall is ineffective.
Now, to the more personal:
(A) Just because you know what my thesis topic is, doesn’t mean you know how I spend the rest of time. Do you know what I’m working on for publication? No. Do you know which events I attend or contribute to? No. Do you know what I’m reading? No.
(B) The statement “someone doesn’t understand what academic research is” was entirely aptly placed.
(1) We should question sources. If this is your claim, it’s empty.
Agreed. A source should never be merely taken at face value. Anyone doing so would not be ‘doing’ research properly. Results should be checked or verified. And so on.
(2) We should look to more than a single source. If this is your claim, it’s already dealt with.
Agreed. You’ll find that the publications regarding the effectiveness of the wall range from right to left. It’s not like I’m over here cherry-picking only left-wing sources without having done appropriate diligence. If you had bothered to do the research you’ve accused me of not doing, you would already be aware of the fact that there is consensus on both sides of the aisle that a wall is ineffective.
Now, to the more personal:
(A) Just because you know what my thesis topic is, doesn’t mean you know how I spend the rest of time. Do you know what I’m working on for publication? No. Do you know which events I attend or contribute to? No. Do you know what I’m reading? No.
(B) The statement “someone doesn’t understand what academic research is” was entirely aptly placed.
I never said there isn't consensus. I suggested you had not personally verified the claim. There's a difference. So your quoting blogs and the odd article does not prove you were familiar with them when you were talking about the experts; it proves only that you have sourced them at the time you posted them. Also, though I never read them myself, so I am not sure if there is a meta-study that demonstrates consensus. An individual article, as you're familiar, will show only that the author thinks a certain thing.
Why would you have spent your life reading 40 papers on this? It's natural. But then don't bring in the argument that people should pipe down because they're not all academic like you. Of course, you're not gonna admit that you were misleading the people by pretending you were familiar with expert academic opinion! You'd have to have monk-like integrity for that.
Even? CATO is probably the most pro-immigration think tank in the world.
If walls dont work why does virtually every coumtry in the world build and maintain them? Trump only wants 290 approx. miles of the 2000 mi border fenced. You shouldnt envision someone coming north to the US,, rreaching the fench, then thinking they might as well turn around and go home.cause we could never get that fench..You have to .use the natural terrain and the wall to cteate choke points where they are forced to slow down. Thats where you concentrate your forces to intercept them. There are too many walls around to say they dont work. They work great for hanging pictures and holding up roofs. Isn't it worth one half of one % of the entire budget to see if a wall should be a part.of an overall plan for border securment?
Original post by username1738683
That's the entire section on how well he delivered his promised wall, not a word about the role the Democrats (and the Republican establishment) have played in it.
Every president has to deal with a Congress that includes the opposition party and members of their own party who aren't entirely on the same page. The skill of an effective president is being able to navigate these obstacles to get their agenda through. In this area, Trump has proven singularly ineffective.
Original post by username1738683
Come off it, had Obama met Kim like that and he'd have received the Nobel peace prize.
Are you serious? Obama got pilloried for bowing slightly to the Saudi king (a longstanding US ally). If he'd lavished the kind of absurdly over-the-top praise and deference on Kim (a longstanding US enemy) that Trump has, Fox and the GOP would have been baying for blood and impeachment the next day!
Actually, we could stop 75% of illegal crossings in a month without building anything. If we would begin penalizing employers for hiring illegals and not just arresting illegals in job site raids. Such raids are rare. As long as there is a chance at a better life here and a job where uou can make 10 times what you make at home people will find a way to get here. That being said
the wall is necessary because right now there is nothing. It really is an open border.
the wall is necessary because right now there is nothing. It really is an open border.
A lot of trumpophilia going on here. I know you want to argue facts, but, as Joe Walsh put it, "you can't argue with a sick mind."
Trump is essentially a toddler, emotionally and intellectually. The Republican Party is craven and obsequious to the great Don. They're afraid of being primaried from the right, i.e., the lunatic fringe among the misinformed.
Trump never had to grow up as a fully functional adult due to being constantly funded by his father, through thick and thin, all through the years. He would have done better financially had he just invested the millions he was given (and cheating on inheritance taxes) into a simple interest bearing account. So much for his "business acumen."
After daddy died, Trump's Art of Dealing landed him severely in debt, with U.S. banks refusing to loan him any more money, and he resorted to foreign banks with ties to Russian, Saudi, and other international money laundering schemes. It's the current form of capital flight.
So to answer your question on how Trump is doing at his 2 year mark in one word: Horrible.
If you don't think what I've outlined above is essentially true, then I don't have more to say to you. It has been some time since I've attended UCSB (I live in California), and I'm thoroughly an American (with no great pride), so perhaps I should not be commenting here. (This is the first time I've visited this website and this is my first post. I hope somebody reads it.)
Anyway, I'm too old now to argue with people with a world view largely inconsistent with my own. And people who share the worldview of Trump and his Republican ilk are truly terrifying, unlike any time I can remember (including the Nixon era).
I've learned that there's a huge difference between the intelligent and the wise. They often, maybe rarely, go hand in hand.
I've also learned in a thought experiment that even if were to convince EVERYBODY of all my arguments, it still wouldn't change the world, or even my life much. So what's the point in it?
"I mean no harm, nor put fault, on anyone that lives in a vault. But it's alright ma, if I can't please him."
Trump is essentially a toddler, emotionally and intellectually. The Republican Party is craven and obsequious to the great Don. They're afraid of being primaried from the right, i.e., the lunatic fringe among the misinformed.
Trump never had to grow up as a fully functional adult due to being constantly funded by his father, through thick and thin, all through the years. He would have done better financially had he just invested the millions he was given (and cheating on inheritance taxes) into a simple interest bearing account. So much for his "business acumen."
After daddy died, Trump's Art of Dealing landed him severely in debt, with U.S. banks refusing to loan him any more money, and he resorted to foreign banks with ties to Russian, Saudi, and other international money laundering schemes. It's the current form of capital flight.
So to answer your question on how Trump is doing at his 2 year mark in one word: Horrible.
If you don't think what I've outlined above is essentially true, then I don't have more to say to you. It has been some time since I've attended UCSB (I live in California), and I'm thoroughly an American (with no great pride), so perhaps I should not be commenting here. (This is the first time I've visited this website and this is my first post. I hope somebody reads it.)
Anyway, I'm too old now to argue with people with a world view largely inconsistent with my own. And people who share the worldview of Trump and his Republican ilk are truly terrifying, unlike any time I can remember (including the Nixon era).
I've learned that there's a huge difference between the intelligent and the wise. They often, maybe rarely, go hand in hand.
I've also learned in a thought experiment that even if were to convince EVERYBODY of all my arguments, it still wouldn't change the world, or even my life much. So what's the point in it?
"I mean no harm, nor put fault, on anyone that lives in a vault. But it's alright ma, if I can't please him."
Im guessing. by your last sentence your a fan of Dylan and recieved your political philosophy. from his songs as a young man in the 70s and 80s.
That explains a lot.
That explains a lot.
Original post by yankeedog1953
Im guessing. by your last sentence your a fan of Dylan and recieved your political philosophy. from his songs as a young man in the 70s and 80s.
That explains a lot.
That explains a lot.
Those early Dylan songs (1964-1965) reflect some of my attitudes, but are not the progenitor of them. What this explained about me to you is unclear to me.
Yes, I am a child of the Sixties, from the Bay Area no less. I started playing close attention to politics when I turned 18, just in time for the Carter-Reagan election. And from my perspective as a humanist above all, U.S. politics has gone steadily downhill since then. It's awful to witness.
P.S. Although I am essentially liberal, I have never joined or been a part of any political party. I am fundamentally opposed to party politics and prefer voting on ballot initiatives when I can.
i graduated from pinole valley h.s. in 71. I played a lot Dylans non political stuff. It always appeared to me he was wishing the world was something it was not and could not be because no one could ever be as "correct" as he thought himself to be let alone an entire nation. Somebody had to be the adult in the room. All that," thr revolution will not be televised", crap was fantasy. It was the extreme result of echo chamber living..Seeing a lot people dancinng in streets on University and claiming some moral highground over anyone else convinced i was right and fell to me to resist. Now a lot of those same freaks and their offspring have , in a big way, influenced the nations political and social pathway with some really negative results. Are you really comfortable being a humanist when so many humans on the planet suck. Are you still in the Bay Area?
Just to I add, Trump has done a great job and with more years to get mex. to pay for the wall going up we will be in fine shape.
My apologies for prentending to know your political beliefs from some song lyrics.
Don M.
Don M.
Great.
Whatever Trump has done fades into insignificance for the masses, as all they get to see is the media ridiculing of trump
I wont say the Trump haters are not still out there but it does seem that the rants aren't so vicious and personal. It seems that many who jumped on the bandwagon in the begining did so to gain some liberal bona fides and now the've gone silent. As things stand now it looks good for a 2nd term and maybe his press coverage will become a little more honest.
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