Marks and spencer accused of cultural appropriation Watch

Qup
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#21
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First world issues for first world people.

Like, actually these lot just need to **** off at this point. Outrage culture of the outrage community is getting ridiculous.

Me breathing will soon be cultural appropiation due to the first humans breathing were from Africa apparently.
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Dandaman1
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#22
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Do people still take this cultural appropriation thing seriously? I have a hard time telling it apart from satire these days.
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snugglebear
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(Original post by It's****ingWOODY)
WTF is a "full English ravioli"???
a made-up fusion food to illustrate the point that a biriyani wrap from m&s shouldn't be getting anyone's knickers in a twist.
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It's****ingWOODY
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(Original post by snugglebear)
a made-up fusion food to illustrate the point that a biriyani wrap from m&s shouldn't be getting anyone's knickers in a twist.
You're missing the point. A biryani is a biryani. It's like selling a bolognese wrap with chicken - it's not a bolognese. What they're selling is a vegetable curry wrap, it's not a biryani. I can't even see how this is a debate, it's mislabelling, pure and simple.
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It's****ingWOODY
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(Original post by Qup)
First world issues for first world people.

Like, actually these lot just need to **** off at this point. Outrage culture of the outrage community is getting ridiculous.

Me breathing will soon be cultural appropiation due to the first humans breathing were from Africa apparently.
(Original post by Dandaman1)
Do people still take this cultural appropriation thing seriously? I have a hard time telling it apart from satire these days.
Pretty much as I said on the first post, it's a misleading news headline. Nobody has called M&S out for cultural appropriation - they're calling them out for selling something labelled as a biryani that isn't a biryani. As I also said in one of my earlier posts, it's like selling a Full English without egg. It's not a Full English breakfast.
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by It's****ingWOODY)
Pretty much as I said on the first post, it's a misleading news headline. Nobody has called M&S out for cultural appropriation - they're calling them out for selling something labelled as a biryani that isn't a biryani. As I also said in one of my earlier posts, it's like selling a Full English without egg. It's not a Full English breakfast.
Yeah, that analogy makes sense until you think about it for, like, fifteen seconds.

A 'Full English', in England, is shorthand for a particular set of things: eggs, sausage, bacon, etc. If you ordered what was only described as a 'Full English' from a cafe and it was just bacon and beans, yeah, you'd be right to be annoyed, because that is misleading. It would be perfectly fair of you to interpret that as a reference to a dish of eggs, sausage, bacon, and so forth.

M & S isn't misleading anyone, because:

(a) It says right there on the packaging what is in the sandwich. It's as though the cafe selling the 'Full English' set out, on the blackboard (or whatever), that their 'Full English' didn't include egg. Which would be strange, but you'd have no right at all to be annoyed when you didn't get an egg.

(b) It's a lunch wrap. Any idiot knows just by way of being alive that you're not going to get the sort of 'Biryani' in a wrap that an Indian grandmother would make. You're going to get some rice and some sort of vaguely curry-oriented filling. There is nothing misleading about this.

So there's nothing at all to complain about from that perspective.

All that leaves is the people who want to insist that we in England don't change Indian food at all, like the person I quoted. What these people are claiming is that we have to use the term 'Biryani' in the same way it is used by Indians, because it's an Indian dish. This is in substance an argument about 'cultural appropriation', whether or not those words are used.

So there's nothing to complain about in relation to the headline either.
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It's****ingWOODY
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
Yeah, that analogy makes sense until you think about it for, like, fifteen seconds.

A 'Full English', in England, is shorthand for a particular set of things: eggs, sausage, bacon, etc. If you ordered what was only described as a 'Full English' from a cafe and it was just bacon and beans, yeah, you'd be right to be annoyed, because that is misleading. It would be perfectly fair of you to interpret that as a reference to a dish of eggs, sausage, bacon, and so forth.

M & S isn't misleading anyone, because:

(a) It says right there on the packaging what is in the sandwich. It's as though the cafe selling the 'Full English' set out, on the blackboard (or whatever), that their 'Full English' didn't include egg. Which would be strange, but you'd have no right at all to be annoyed when you didn't get an egg.

(b) It's a lunch wrap. Any idiot knows just by way of being alive that you're not going to get the sort of 'Biryani' in a wrap that an Indian grandmother would make. You're going to get some rice and some sort of vaguely curry-oriented filling. There is nothing misleading about this.

So there's nothing at all to complain about from that perspective.

All that leaves is the people who want to insist that we in England don't change Indian food at all, like the person I quoted. What these people are claiming is that we have to use the term 'Biryani' in the same way it is used by Indians, because it's an Indian dish. This is in substance an argument about 'cultural appropriation', whether or not those words are used.

So there's nothing to complain about in relation to the headline either.
Again, missing the point. If you change the focal ingredients of the dish, it's not the same dish. A Full English without ingredients such as egg or beans, is just a fried breakfast. Likewise, in another example I used, it's like making a Bolognese wrap with chicken instead of beef - it's not a Bolognese.

It's nothing to do with Indians insisting people call it that because it's theirs. A biryani is, again, a recipe made from a particular set of ingredients. Remove those ingredients, it's not the same dish. This is the reason there are so many types of curry. If M&S just called it a vegetable curry wrap, there would be no problem - but they called it a biryani when it's not a biryani.
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Libtardian
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#28
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#28
M&S is clearly being racist and needs to be shut down.
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harrysbar
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#29
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#29
(Original post by It's****ingWOODY)
WTF is a "full English ravioli"???
Overcooked ravioli
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Notoriety
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#30
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#30
(Original post by It's****ingWOODY)
Again, missing the point. If you change the focal ingredients of the dish, it's not the same dish. A Full English without ingredients such as egg or beans, is just a fried breakfast. Likewise, in another example I used, it's like making a Bolognese wrap with chicken instead of beef - it's not a Bolognese.

It's nothing to do with Indians insisting people call it that because it's theirs. A biryani is, again, a recipe made from a particular set of ingredients. Remove those ingredients, it's not the same dish. This is the reason there are so many types of curry. If M&S just called it a vegetable curry wrap, there would be no problem - but they called it a biryani when it's not a biryani.
If you said "chicken bolognese wrap", then what's the problem? Everyone would know it is a bolognese-inspired and tasting dish, which instead is made with chicken. You seem to have a hyper-literalist approach to language, which simply does not make sense. You're like the bloke in the pub who says "the word X in 1506 meant the opposite to its modern meaning, so we're using the word incorrectly". That does not compute linguistically and obviously engages the etymological fallacy.

Food is no different. Cuisines develop away from their host country; they are not merely static. For example, we have a very tasty British Indian cuisine, completely at odds with authentic Indian cuisine. But for some reason we celebrate this diversity and these *******ised dishes are enjoyed across the globe. There are veg versions of the biryani anyway (one called tahri, and many more listed on the Wiki) -- does it really make sense for M&S to be forced to use an obscure term, which basically has the same semantic content as "veg biryani"?

Lastly, this close-mindedness is exemplified by people mocking the spelling "biriyani". Seemingly these people do not realise that the more common spelling is a mere transliteration; an attempt to Anglicise a foreign word, no more valid than any other attempt. These people focus so closely on having specialised and pure knowledge, yet ignore basic realities and I daresay common sense. They are fighting too hard to be seen as having something to say.
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gjd800
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(Original post by Notoriety)
Seemingly these people do not realise that the more common spelling is a mere transliteration; an attempt to Anglicise a foreign word, no more valid than any other attempt. These people focus so closely on having specialised and pure knowledge, yet ignore basic realities and I daresay common sense. They are fighting too hard to be seen as having something to say.
Personally, I write the names of my curries only in devanagari.
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Notoriety
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#32
(Original post by gjd800)
Personally, I write the names of my curries only in devanagari.
I wouldn't be surprised, from such a noted Plastic Punjabi aka Indiboo.
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MinaBee
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People are dying. Does this really matter?
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gjd800
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(Original post by Notoriety)
I wouldn't be surprised, from such a noted Plastic Punjabi aka Indiboo.
:laugh:

As a (semi-serious) matter of interest though re the spelling, in Hindi it is rendered बिरयानी which transliterates according to common custom as 'birayānī', which would then be prounounced something like 'biruhyaanee' (very soft 'uh'). The spelling is -- as you say -- pretty inconsequential.
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SoulfulTwist
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#35
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
It's got rice in it :dontknow:

M&S can call it Biriyani (their spelling) if they want. They're not under an obligation to provide 'authenticity'. I doubt anyone really expects it, either, in the wrap they picked up as part of their supermarket meal deal. The fact that it's a wrap should be a clue in itself.

Authenticity is pretty overrated in relation to food anyway.

Look at the comments. One from the article is:



Yeah, well, in England, now there is. And it's in a wrap. So what?
There is. It is called vegetable akhni.
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TimmonaPortella
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#36
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#36
(Original post by SoulfulTwist)
There is. It is called vegetable akhni.
M&S call this one 'sweet potato biriyani'. Seems valid enough to me. Everyone knows basically what's meant.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go ahead and say that 1% of M&S's meal deal customer base has heard of 'akhni'. You don't do your customers any favours, let alone actually shift your goods, by labelling things in a way that nobody understands.

The relevant market runs in, glimpses a sandwich in which they might be interested, has a quick look at it, and runs out. You therefore have to name the sandwich in such a way that your customers will immediately understand roughly the sort of thing they're going to get.

It's a perfectly proper use of the term 'biriyani' to communicate that in this case.
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happbee
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#37
It's so ridiculous! It's literally a bit of food.
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the bear
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#38
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#38
the price puts me off rather than the spelling or the ingredients

smh
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Andrew97
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#39
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#39
Cultural appropriation doesn’t actually exist. It’s just a way for people to get angry at nothing.
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the bear
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#40
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Wagon Wheels are an appalling appropriation of early American settler culture. They should be banned immediately.
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