Norway tells students to avoid UK universities
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Original post by AperfectBalance
Much like the industries pre thatcher and the unions there must be a culling of the universities, sure it may bring about some pain but overall it will fix the corrupt institutions
and result in a global financial crisis?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Surely the first of many such announcements to come across the world. The Norwegian government is advising its students not to apply to UK universities because of Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/norway-students-uk-universities-brexit-warning
Postgrad applications from the EU are down 9% this year. This represents a major blow to UK university funding and cuts are now pretty much inevitable - it is also extremely likely that some universities in severe debt will go bust.
Another success for the Brexiteers.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/norway-students-uk-universities-brexit-warning
Postgrad applications from the EU are down 9% this year. This represents a major blow to UK university funding and cuts are now pretty much inevitable - it is also extremely likely that some universities in severe debt will go bust.
Another success for the Brexiteers.
Well yes. And funding is also witheld for research projects, because it's EU funding.
Original post by jameswhughes
How many people are going to turn down a place at Oxford/Cambridge or one of the top London universities just because we aren't in the EU? It's just project fear as usual.
The article even finishes with "Last year, there was a 1% increase in overall EU student numbers, after years of steady growth.", so there's still growth, not some sort of exodus of European students.
The article even finishes with "Last year, there was a 1% increase in overall EU student numbers, after years of steady growth.", so there's still growth, not some sort of exodus of European students.
Because everything is about 10 out of over 100 unis. Yes, that is where the money is, the reputation of UK unis, the massive amount of money coming into the country. All because of a few top unis.
It's also not happening that EU universities are eager to start teaching more in English - which let's be real, is absolutely the main reason so many foreigners go to the UK.
Original post by stoyfan
Typically when people try to put multiple qoutes in their post, the text directly below their qoute is only relevant to it.
I know that my post doesn't have multiple qoutes but I wanted to avoid making yet another post in quick succession.
There is no point in accusing someone that they do not understand about something if you do not tell them what they got wrong. Other than that, I don't know what you are talking about.
It says: "Erasmus international study programme in the event of a no-deal Brexit. It said it would honour the overseas placements of UK and EU27 students who were abroad at the time of a no-deal exit.". But Iselin Nybø says: "there were still concerns about the future of Erasmus for Norwegians, as Norway is not a member of the EU". For me, her response justifies her reason to be worried as it has only been guarenteed that overseas placements of UK and EU students would be honoured.
The UCAS deadline is 15th of January. Unless if you are refering to another deadline, then tell me. Don't just tell that I don't know about 'the deadline'.
I know that my post doesn't have multiple qoutes but I wanted to avoid making yet another post in quick succession.
There is no point in accusing someone that they do not understand about something if you do not tell them what they got wrong. Other than that, I don't know what you are talking about.
It says: "Erasmus international study programme in the event of a no-deal Brexit. It said it would honour the overseas placements of UK and EU27 students who were abroad at the time of a no-deal exit.". But Iselin Nybø says: "there were still concerns about the future of Erasmus for Norwegians, as Norway is not a member of the EU". For me, her response justifies her reason to be worried as it has only been guarenteed that overseas placements of UK and EU students would be honoured.
The UCAS deadline is 15th of January. Unless if you are refering to another deadline, then tell me. Don't just tell that I don't know about 'the deadline'.
1. You didnt have mutliple quotes and it was entirely reasonable in a post addressed to one person was relevant to that person in its entirety. You cant weasel your way out of that one.
2. You point out for normal applications the UCAS deadline is correct at 15th Jan but that is not final it simply means the guarantee that applicants get equal consideration by universities applies to all applicants who make this date. People can still apply through UCAS and will be doing fro any course still accpeting applications, which will be most of them. The only ones where its more likely to be absolute will be Oxbridge, conservatoires and medical schools.
There will still be additional applications from people who miss the deadline, UCAS extra and clearing.
3. Your claim that that it was only relevant to 2020 applicants is wrong because she made specific reference to warning Norwegian students for this Autumn. That would be 2019 applicants.
4. At the time of her warning the UK government has already guaranteed that Uni fees including Erasmus would be paid as far back as August 2018.This includes Norway. Had she been properly informed she would realise she was wrong and giving bad advice.
Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps Programme – Updated Guidance from Government
The Government has issued an updated Technical Notice providing guidance to organisations and individuals on the UK’s anticipated participation in the current Erasmus+ (2014-2020) and European Solidarity Corps (ESC) (2018 -2020) programmes, after the UK leaves the EU.
Key points from the Technical Notice are covered below.
Upcoming applications - 2019 Call for Proposals
The Government recommends that applications are submitted as normal for the upcoming deadlines for funding in respect of the 2019 Call for Proposals, for both Erasmus+ and the European Solidarity Corps. This will ensure that organisations and individuals can take part in the programmes if a withdrawal agreement is in place.
At the same time, organisations should take note of the scenarios outlined in the Technical Notice as part of their business planning.
The Government Guarantee
In the event that the UK leaves the EU with no agreement in place, the government guarantee will cover the payment of awards to UK applicants for all successful Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps bids. Successful bids are those that are approved directly by the European Commission or by the National Agency and ratified by the European Commission. This includes projects and participants that are only informed of their success, or who sign a grant agreement, after the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. The guarantee commits to underwrite funding for the entire lifetime of the projects.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/erasmus-in-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal
If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 without a deal:
we’re underwriting Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps (ESC) funding for all successful bids submitted while we are still in the EU. This arrangement is dependent on reaching agreement with the EU that UK organisations can continue to be eligible to participate in Erasmus+ projects or ESC projects
funding for successful bids will continue for the lifetime of those particular projects
you will still be able to bid for new funding until 2020 if we reach an agreement with the EU that UK organisations can participate in Erasmus+ or ESC projects post-exit after the UK has left the EU
Original post by CoolCavy
One of my flatmates is Norwegian
nor way !!
http://images2.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED45/5230d0af354ac.jpeg
Original post by yudothis
which let's be real, is absolutely the main reason so many foreigners go to the UK.
Norwegians can speak better English than most English people...
Original post by 999tigger
1. You didnt have mutliple quotes and it was entirely reasonable in a post addressed to one person was relevant to that person in its entirety. You cant weasel your way out of that one.
2. You point out for normal applications the UCAS deadline is correct at 15th Jan but that is not final it simply means the guarantee that applicants get equal consideration by universities applies to all applicants who make this date. People can still apply through UCAS and will be doing fro any course still accpeting applications, which will be most of them. The only ones where its more likely to be absolute will be Oxbridge, conservatoires and medical schools.
There will still be additional applications from people who miss the deadline, UCAS extra and clearing.
3. Your claim that that it was only relevant to 2020 applicants is wrong because she made specific reference to warning Norwegian students for this Autumn. That would be 2019 applicants.
4. At the time of her warning the UK government has already guaranteed that Uni fees including Erasmus would be paid as far back as August 2018.This includes Norway. Had she been properly informed she would realise she was wrong and giving bad advice.
Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps Programme – Updated Guidance from Government
The Government has issued an updated Technical Notice providing guidance to organisations and individuals on the UK’s anticipated participation in the current Erasmus+ (2014-2020) and European Solidarity Corps (ESC) (2018 -2020) programmes, after the UK leaves the EU.
Key points from the Technical Notice are covered below.
Upcoming applications - 2019 Call for Proposals
The Government recommends that applications are submitted as normal for the upcoming deadlines for funding in respect of the 2019 Call for Proposals, for both Erasmus+ and the European Solidarity Corps. This will ensure that organisations and individuals can take part in the programmes if a withdrawal agreement is in place.
At the same time, organisations should take note of the scenarios outlined in the Technical Notice as part of their business planning.
The Government Guarantee
In the event that the UK leaves the EU with no agreement in place, the government guarantee will cover the payment of awards to UK applicants for all successful Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps bids. Successful bids are those that are approved directly by the European Commission or by the National Agency and ratified by the European Commission. This includes projects and participants that are only informed of their success, or who sign a grant agreement, after the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. The guarantee commits to underwrite funding for the entire lifetime of the projects.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/erasmus-in-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal
If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 without a deal:
we’re underwriting Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps (ESC) funding for all successful bids submitted while we are still in the EU. This arrangement is dependent on reaching agreement with the EU that UK organisations can continue to be eligible to participate in Erasmus+ projects or ESC projects
funding for successful bids will continue for the lifetime of those particular projects
you will still be able to bid for new funding until 2020 if we reach an agreement with the EU that UK organisations can participate in Erasmus+ or ESC projects post-exit after the UK has left the EU
2. You point out for normal applications the UCAS deadline is correct at 15th Jan but that is not final it simply means the guarantee that applicants get equal consideration by universities applies to all applicants who make this date. People can still apply through UCAS and will be doing fro any course still accpeting applications, which will be most of them. The only ones where its more likely to be absolute will be Oxbridge, conservatoires and medical schools.
There will still be additional applications from people who miss the deadline, UCAS extra and clearing.
3. Your claim that that it was only relevant to 2020 applicants is wrong because she made specific reference to warning Norwegian students for this Autumn. That would be 2019 applicants.
4. At the time of her warning the UK government has already guaranteed that Uni fees including Erasmus would be paid as far back as August 2018.This includes Norway. Had she been properly informed she would realise she was wrong and giving bad advice.
Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps Programme – Updated Guidance from Government
The Government has issued an updated Technical Notice providing guidance to organisations and individuals on the UK’s anticipated participation in the current Erasmus+ (2014-2020) and European Solidarity Corps (ESC) (2018 -2020) programmes, after the UK leaves the EU.
Key points from the Technical Notice are covered below.
Upcoming applications - 2019 Call for Proposals
The Government recommends that applications are submitted as normal for the upcoming deadlines for funding in respect of the 2019 Call for Proposals, for both Erasmus+ and the European Solidarity Corps. This will ensure that organisations and individuals can take part in the programmes if a withdrawal agreement is in place.
At the same time, organisations should take note of the scenarios outlined in the Technical Notice as part of their business planning.
The Government Guarantee
In the event that the UK leaves the EU with no agreement in place, the government guarantee will cover the payment of awards to UK applicants for all successful Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps bids. Successful bids are those that are approved directly by the European Commission or by the National Agency and ratified by the European Commission. This includes projects and participants that are only informed of their success, or who sign a grant agreement, after the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. The guarantee commits to underwrite funding for the entire lifetime of the projects.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/erasmus-in-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal
If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 without a deal:
we’re underwriting Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps (ESC) funding for all successful bids submitted while we are still in the EU. This arrangement is dependent on reaching agreement with the EU that UK organisations can continue to be eligible to participate in Erasmus+ projects or ESC projects
funding for successful bids will continue for the lifetime of those particular projects
you will still be able to bid for new funding until 2020 if we reach an agreement with the EU that UK organisations can participate in Erasmus+ or ESC projects post-exit after the UK has left the EU
I agree she was premature in her warning, but for 2020 who knows... and "no deal" at the end of March would make a 2020 onwards agreement for both Erasmus and EEA/EU student funding much less certain.
Original post by Doonesbury
Norwegians can speak better English than most English people...
I think we see a misleading sample, though. Of the high achieving Scandies who speak fluent Standard English, rather than the C-level students.
I think we need to take a look at who we're actually talking about here.
"5,565 Norwegian students chose in 2015 to take all or part of their education in the UK" (source)
That works out to be about 0.2% of the UK's 2.32 million students.
I don't think this news is a massive concern, and I'm not willing to endorse predictions about more statements until they actually happen.
I also feel that Brexit as a political statement has done enough in a diplomatic sense, to deter people within other European countries from engaging with the UK, including in this context.
And do you have any actual evidence of how many of the 5.5k Norwegian student attend the universities mentioned?
"Value for money" is a subjective concept which makes students who use it look (and sometimes behave) like spoilt children. I've never seen students in or from other countries complain about tuition fees (including countries that have worse systems than ours) and I'd suggest that next time you want to use the phrase you go and define it.
"5,565 Norwegian students chose in 2015 to take all or part of their education in the UK" (source)
That works out to be about 0.2% of the UK's 2.32 million students.
I don't think this news is a massive concern, and I'm not willing to endorse predictions about more statements until they actually happen.
I also feel that Brexit as a political statement has done enough in a diplomatic sense, to deter people within other European countries from engaging with the UK, including in this context.
Original post by jameswhughes
How many people are going to turn down a place at Oxford/Cambridge or one of the top London universities just because we aren't in the EU? It's just project fear as usual.
Original post by Decahedron
That is the nature of severe debt.
Perhaps it will encourage unis to offer more value for money.
Perhaps it will encourage unis to offer more value for money.
Original post by Doonesbury
I agree she was premature in her warning, but for 2020 who knows... and "no deal" at the end of March would make a 2020 onwards agreement for both Erasmus and EEA/EU student funding much less certain.
If I exaggerate, it's only to focus minds.
Everything is up in the air at present, but it does seem completely plausible that regardless of the type of Brexit, we are going to face reductions in crucial revenue streams for UK universities. If you take the research side as an example, grants flowing here from EU sources have only been promised replacement by the British government over a very short term. The UK government have likewise committed to Erasmus only in the near-term. It is unwise to trust the government of right wing ideologues obsessed with a tiny state and cuts-crazed libertarian extremists that we currently have to deliver on anything longer-term. Therefore there is every chance that deep cuts are in the offing, not just at the lower end of UK universities, but at the upper end. Brexit always looked like a disaster for what was a highly profitable UK export industry and that's not changed.
Original post by Doonesbury
I agree she was premature in her warning, but for 2020 who knows... and "no deal" at the end of March would make a 2020 onwards agreement for both Erasmus and EEA/EU student funding much less certain.
She was wrong or ignorant. If there is no deal, then a lot more than Erasmus becomes uncertain.
It was clear which period she was referring to because she siad it and even with the clarification she was misinformed to say the least. I dont need someone taking the effort to tag me on why I was incorrect when in fact I was not be ir normal ucas deadline or erasmus. It was irksome.
Original post by 04MR17
And do you have any actual evidence of how many of the 5.5k Norwegian student attend the universities mentioned?
Cambridge: 20 Norwegian undergrads currently at Cambridge
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/norway
Oxford: 14 undergrads (assuming 3 year courses, so will actually be slighter higher including 4 year courses)
https://public.tableau.com/views/UniversityofOxford-AdmissionsStatistics-NationalityandDomicile/NationalityandDomicile?%3Aembed=y&%3Adisplay_count=yes&%3AshowTabs=y&%3AshowVizHome=no
Original post by Doonesbury
Cambridge: 20 Norwegian undergrads currently at Cambridge
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/norway
Oxford: 14 undergrads (assuming 3 year courses, so will actually be slighter higher including 4 year courses)
https://public.tableau.com/views/UniversityofOxford-AdmissionsStatistics-NationalityandDomicile/NationalityandDomicile?%3Aembed=y&%3Adisplay_count=yes&%3AshowTabs=y&%3AshowVizHome=no
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/norway
Oxford: 14 undergrads (assuming 3 year courses, so will actually be slighter higher including 4 year courses)
https://public.tableau.com/views/UniversityofOxford-AdmissionsStatistics-NationalityandDomicile/NationalityandDomicile?%3Aembed=y&%3Adisplay_count=yes&%3AshowTabs=y&%3AshowVizHome=no
(edited 5 years ago)
Indeed. I'm a Swedish A-level student who have offers from Manchester, Nottingham and Glasgow thus far and I'm 95% sure I'll choose none of them due to Brexit. Not so much because of the lack of funding I'll get but because of the absolute lack of uncertainty and the effect Brexit will have on jobs and thus new graduates. Most of my friends are doing the same thing and feel the same way and are looking at Amsterdam instead. A close friend of mine is also a dentist, has worked here for years and is leaving in April.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by angelinahx
Not so much because of the lack of funding I'll get .
Well just to clarify, EU funding isn't an issue for those starting in Sept 2019.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Notoriety
I think we see a misleading sample, though. Of the high achieving Scandies who speak fluent Standard English, rather than the C-level students.
The average Scandia shop assistant and truck driver speaks decent English also.
Original post by ajj2000
The average Scandia shop assistant and truck driver speaks decent English also.
Yeah, those in a customer service role. I held the same belief that Scandies were all Anglophones, till I met a bunch of professional Danes with bachelor's and they spoke English like my 4yo cousin.
Original post by 04MR17
And do you have any actual evidence of how many of the 5.5k Norwegian student attend the universities mentioned?
It seems very few as mentioned in a later post.
I was merely saying the UK has universities that are ranked among the best in the world/Europe, and it’s a silly fear-mongering story if anyone believes that international students are going to stop coming because of this. (However, if all Norwegian students did choose go somewhere else, I don’t think anyone would notice...)
Original post by jameswhughes
It seems very few as mentioned in a later post.
I was merely saying the UK has universities that are ranked among the best in the world/Europe, and it’s a silly fear-mongering story if anyone believes that international students are going to stop coming because of this. (However, if all Norwegian students did choose go somewhere else, I don’t think anyone would notice...)
I was merely saying the UK has universities that are ranked among the best in the world/Europe, and it’s a silly fear-mongering story if anyone believes that international students are going to stop coming because of this. (However, if all Norwegian students did choose go somewhere else, I don’t think anyone would notice...)
I think telling the European Union that we don't like their company isn't the best message to the citizens of those countries about how welcoming we'll be to them in our universities.
Original post by Doonesbury
Well just to clarify, funding isn't an issue for those starting in Sept 2019.
I applied for deferred entry, hence the uncertainty.
But that's irrelevant. I applied to Melbourne as well and obviously will get no funding and that's okay because I have funding from my own country to finance my studies (yes, in Sweden you get paid to study abroad). I'm leaving because I don't want to personally experience the economic aftermath of Brexit and I'd rather contribute to a country where I feel welcome, which is the same reason my dentist friend is leaving.
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