Is liberal government just a new form of authoritarianism? Watch

Davij038
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liberal limits to state power seem to just be another form of authoritarianism but unlike traditional forms take away clear accountability. For instance, in authoritarian regimes the state will arrest you for criticising government policy- in liberal regimes you will be banned from platforms or from making your own by third parties eg twitter and GoDaddy. The liberal state seems to have outsourced its coercive powers to third parties.
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Violet Femme
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That’s a tenuous, feeble and badly thought-out argument.
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username4477046
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No matter the system of governance the weak leak will always remain the same, ie humanity. The people themselves will corrupt it. Ironically the only way to have a perfect system is to exclude people from it
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username4477046
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Or if you want some form of rule. I offer my services.
Kneel down, take my hand. Swear your loyalty to me.

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Davij038
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(Original post by Violet Femme)
That’s a tenuous, feeble and badly thought-out argument.
I’m not hearing a counter argument
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yudothis
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Of course they are.

The Nazi party boycotted lecturers - who does that sound like in the 2010s?

Of course they hide behind a feigned moral superiority, and pretend their 'values' justify their actions. The irony in that is lost upon them.
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AperfectBalance
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Absolutely, the left are amazing at socially killing you, they make your thoughts now just wrong but unacceptable, you will be removed from any real platform and the idiots will cry "Hurr durr it is a private business it can do what it wants" without thinking if it is right or wrong, they are mindless are 10000000x more dangerous than any right wing extremists because they act all innocent untill they have ruined society, atleast a nazi will tell you that he wants you dead and to be silenced.

They hide under the guise of false morals and 'being kind' they are seriously the most dangerous thing we face today and if we do not act soon they will have already destroyed the moral society.
Last edited by AperfectBalance; 2 weeks ago
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stoyfan
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(Original post by Davij038)
liberal limits to state power seem to just be another form of authoritarianism but unlike traditional forms take away clear accountability. For instance, in authoritarian regimes the state will arrest you for criticising government policy- in liberal regimes you will be banned from platforms or from making your own by third parties eg twitter and GoDaddy. The liberal state seems to have outsourced its coercive powers to third parties.
Never heard of anyone banned from making a new social network (if that is what you mean by making a 'third party').
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yudothis
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(Original post by stoyfan)
Never heard of anyone banned from making a new social network (if that is what you mean by making a 'third party').
Not banned from making your own, but from using existing ones (those with significant economies of scale). E.g. a website to raise funds temporarily banned an organization recently just because so many liberal activists harassed them to do so. Think China's social score rating system but done by the will of angry, often anonymous internet activists.
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DSilva
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(Original post by yudothis)
Of course they are.

The Nazi party boycotted lecturers - who does that sound like in the 2010s?

Of course they hide behind a feigned moral superiority, and pretend their 'values' justify their actions. The irony in that is lost upon them.
(Original post by yudothis)
Not banned from making your own, but from using existing ones (those with significant economies of scale). E.g. a website to raise funds temporarily banned an organization recently just because so many liberal activists harassed them to do so. Think China's social score rating system but done by the will of angry, often anonymous internet activists.
That's the free market for you, where private companies can do as they wish for whatever reason.

The irony is delicious. The right have pursued a 'free market'. Private companies being able to ban people for any reason they like is a right wing concept.

Ps, I'm still waiting for you to explain in what sense the human rights tribunal has a lower standard of proof than other civil courts. You've gone rather suspiciously quiet on that one...
Last edited by DSilva; 2 weeks ago
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Davij038)
liberal limits to state power seem to just be another form of authoritarianism but unlike traditional forms take away clear accountability. For instance, in authoritarian regimes the state will arrest you for criticising government policy- in liberal regimes you will be banned from platforms or from making your own by third parties eg twitter and GoDaddy. The liberal state seems to have outsourced its coercive powers to third parties.
Don't know about you, but I'll take being banned on some social media platforms for saying the N word over being arrested for criticising government policy any day.
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DSilva
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(Original post by AperfectBalance)
Absolutely, the left are amazing at socially killing you, they make your thoughts now just wrong but unacceptable, you will be removed from any real platform and the idiots will cry "Hurr durr it is a private business it can do what it wants" without thinking if it is right or wrong, they are mindless are 10000000x more dangerous than any right wing extremists because they act all innocent untill they have ruined society, atleast a nazi will tell you that he wants you dead and to be silenced.

They hide under the guise of false morals and 'being kind' they are seriously the most dangerous thing we face today and if we do not act soon they will have already destroyed the moral society.
The irony is astounding. It's the right who have campaigned and advocated for private companies to have far greater freedom, yet they are now moaning that they do things they don't like.

If a private company wants to ban people who are right wing, isn't that their prerogative and right as a private enterprise?
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by AperfectBalance)
Absolutely, the left are amazing at socially killing you, they make your thoughts now just wrong but unacceptable, you will be removed from any real platform and the idiots will cry "Hurr durr it is a private business it can do what it wants" without thinking if it is right or wrong, they are mindless are 10000000x more dangerous than any right wing extremists because they act all innocent untill they have ruined society, atleast a nazi will tell you that he wants you dead and to be silenced.

They hide under the guise of false morals and 'being kind' they are seriously the most dangerous thing we face today and if we do not act soon they will have already destroyed the moral society.
Nobody is obliged to let you speak on their platform. If I invited you over to my house and you started saying things which were upsetting the other guests I have every right to tell you to bugger off. Hell, you don't even have to have said anything 'wrong'; if I don't want you in my house then I still have the right to kick you out. The same applies to social media.
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yankeedog1953
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As far as private business being able to say someone is not eiligible to use their services for whatever reason; didn't the courts find (US) that a bakery couldn't discriminate against anyone on a particular sexual whatever? Werent political beliefs protected also under that ruling
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Davij038
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
Nobody is obliged to let you speak on their platform. If I invited you over to my house and you started saying things which were upsetting the other guests I have every right to tell you to bugger off. Hell, you don't even have to have said anything 'wrong'; if I don't want you in my house then I still have the right to kick you out. The same applies to social media.
Ah but do people have the right to exclude people from their business? If you’re being a consistent libertarian then people also face the right to refuse service to whoever they want..
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turquoise_badger
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(Original post by Davij038)
liberal limits to state power seem to just be another form of authoritarianism but unlike traditional forms take away clear accountability. For instance, in authoritarian regimes the state will arrest you for criticising government policy- in liberal regimes you will be banned from platforms or from making your own by third parties eg twitter and GoDaddy. The liberal state seems to have outsourced its coercive powers to third parties.
Not really, no.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Davij038)
Ah but do people have the right to exclude people from their business? If you’re being a consistent libertarian then people also face the right to refuse service to whoever they want..
Generally speaking people do have the right to refuse service to anyone.

We have certain protected classes/cases but outside of that it's fair game, really.
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ap.ferro
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Not so much the government, but the liberal idelogy in the 21st century has gone from "you can have your opinion" to "you can have your opinion as long as it doesn't offend mine and if it does I'm not going to talk to you". I think its stupid to compare it to the soviet era as many on the right in the US do but it is a different form of censorship, like how three big tech companies all banned Alex jones at once. Deep state in action
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Davij038
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
Don't know about you, but I'll take being banned on some social media platforms for saying the N word over being arrested for criticising government policy any day.
Not saying the N word is government policy though, via hate speech legislation. And you nay get a visit from the police if you do that too.
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Davij038
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(Original post by DSilva)
The irony is astounding. It's the right who have campaigned and advocated for private companies to have far greater freedom, yet they are now moaning that they do things they don't like.

If a private company wants to ban people who are right wing, isn't that their prerogative and right as a private enterprise?
Conservatives had the really dumb idea that corporations and business people are just concerned about making money, and as rational actors wouldn’t do things that would damage their profits.

This is is of course a load of rubbish, and conservatives esp people like Tucker Carlson have realised this and we are now seeing a new ‘alt right’ which is aware of this and other phenomena
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