Is liberal government just a new form of authoritarianism? Watch

username4477046
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Krisis)
I am not entirely clear on what you mean, I was trying to respond to the OP who thinks that the state outsources censorship to social media or Idk where else. If that were so, there would be a clear directive/law/something from the government to Twitter to ban, say, Gavin McInnes. As I said, from my knowledge, that has not happened. Twitter itself decided to ban him. I don't agree with their decision, I am in favour of allowing all trashbags like McInnes (and Davij) to express their ridiciulous views in public. But alas, Twitter has a different policy, they've hundreds of millions of users they have to think about apart from McInnes and Davij.
McInnes was lucky he escaped the witch hunt. Alex Jones didin't. I used to watch him on Youtube. No that i agreed with his views. For me he was great comedian. But he is no more. He was deemed "too dangerous" to be allowed to express his views. Question is now in this media reality we live in. Who will be next to be destroyed by these authoritarian views
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Davij038
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#62
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#62
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Of course the intent is the same but the scale and magnitude is nowhere near similar.

What things do you want to say which currently you're unable to say?
True, for now but it’s getting worse.

What I can’t speak about:

- a certain historical event alleged to have taken place and is the only area of history not open to debate. You might think this is trivial but it has become the founding cornerstone of modern liberal democracies. If it were to be proven that this event was a hoax the implications would be unprecedented.

-Certain aspects about race, one race in particular.

- Increasingly certain things about LGBT
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paul514
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#63
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#63
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Which comes into conflict with the economic system.
No, it does not.
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Davij038
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Krisis)
Yeah, not being allowed to spew your nonsense in my property is not like being authoritarian. Medical researchers won't allow anyone to publish rubbish on their journals for obvious reasons. Similarly, twitter has decided to not allow bigots or racists in their platform and that has nothing to do with your imagined liberal ''authoritarian'' state outsourcing anything. It's their own private policy, it's not outsourced by the state.
There is a big difference between things like journals and newspapers which you most certainly don’t have a right to write for and social media platforms, which :

A: are subsidised and helped paid for by tax payers who have rights to free speech
B: Say they are committed to free speech but selectively ban people for their political views .

So let’s say our roles were reversed and you were someone who wanted to critique my policies. Now under my state you have the right to say whatever you want, but if you wanted to speak publicly say on Facebook or twitter, well the owners are ultranationalist Christians who think your liberal views violate their safe space and might constitute blasphemy (which is what hate laws basically are ) and ban you from their platform - does that not seem like a problem for you?
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Davij038
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Krisis)
Plenty of right-wingers have billions. They can create their own media and if their platforms are better, people will flock to them to taste ''real'' freedom.

That you are being banned from a social media platform because you express racist or homophobic or bigoted views is not ''authoritarian''. It can be if the state mandates it - which, to my knowledge, it does not.
No one in the Alt Right has billions. The ‘mainstream’ right wing are one side of the same coin of ‘globalists’ that’s why they attack the alt right and are being replaced.

Ah you mean the state publicly does not mandate it, just as it does not mandate a whole load of things it’s been caught doing (overthrowing governments, mass spying and surveillance etc

But to be fair I think this is dictated to the government through various third parties. Although massively wrong about a number of things obviously, Owen Jones book ‘the establishment’ details well that there is a huge crony relationship between politicians, the media, lobbying groups etc and that they often have their own agenda
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Davij038
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Krisis)
I am not entirely clear on what you mean, I was trying to respond to the OP who thinks that the state outsources censorship to social media or Idk where else. If that were so, there would be a clear directive/law/something from the government to Twitter to ban, say, Gavin McInnes. As I said, from my knowledge, that has not happened. Twitter itself decided to ban him. I don't agree with their decision, I am in favour of allowing all trashbags like McInnes (and Davij) to express their ridiciulous views in public. But alas, Twitter has a different policy, they've hundreds of millions of users they have to think about apart from McInnes and Davij.
States sometimes don’t need to. For instance lynching was against the law in parts of the south in America but was effectively endorsed by those in power, despite no diktat telling people to do it and it being illegal.

Why would any governmebt get it’s hands dirty if it can avoid it? Wouldn’t it make sense to get someone else to take the fall (who just so happen to be well connected and personal donors to boot...
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yudothis
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#67
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#67
(Original post by DSilva)
That's the free market for you, where private companies can do as they wish for whatever reason.

The irony is delicious. The right have pursued a 'free market'. Private companies being able to ban people for any reason they like is a right wing concept.

Ps, I'm still waiting for you to explain in what sense the human rights tribunal has a lower standard of proof than other civil courts. You've gone rather suspiciously quiet on that one...
It's not 'free' if they are harassed into it. Nor am I 'right' nor do I support a fully free market. Just stop. Stop it.
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yudothis
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#68
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#68
(Original post by stoyfan)
Except that China's social score has serious consenquences. Getting banned from Twitter or Facebook has little to no consequences and you can easily make a new one.

These social score systems and facebook are two very different things.
I don't think you understand how serious this can be for any given individual or a small group relying on say funds, if their funds platform shuts them down because they are flooded with harassment. This has nothing to do with facebook.
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Libtardian
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#69
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#69
The left feels threatened so they are resorting to authoritarianism in order to try and maintain power.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#70
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#70
(Original post by paul514)
No, it does not.
Why?
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SHallowvale
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Davij038)
True, for now but it’s getting worse.

What I can’t speak about:

- a certain historical event alleged to have taken place and is the only area of history not open to debate. You might think this is trivial but it has become the founding cornerstone of modern liberal democracies. If it were to be proven that this event was a hoax the implications would be unprecedented.

-Certain aspects about race, one race in particular.

- Increasingly certain things about LGBT
I assume you're referring to the holocaust in which case it's not illegal to deny it (at least not in the UK). You'll probably find yourself banned on Twitter, Youtube or this forum for trying to deny it but once again these are all privately owned spaces. People don't have to let you say something on them, nor should they.

What can't you say about a certain race and what can't you say about LGBT people?
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SHallowvale
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#72
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#72
(Original post by username4477046)
""Free" is used relatively. The country is basically 'free' relative to, say, North Korea or the USSR. The kind of censorship which we have is trivial compared to that of 'proper', if you will, authoritarian countries."

If you guys want to fight for freedom. I support you. First we are going to change this Student Forum to stop deleting my stuff. Then we see if your dreams are any different than the USSR
Well I'm not going to "fight for freedom" since I'm perfectly happy with what this forum decides to delete. And no that doesn't make me some kind of USSR level authoritarian.
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Cast Iron
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#73
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#73
(Original post by AperfectBalance)
Absolutely, the left are amazing at socially killing you, they make your thoughts now just wrong but unacceptable, you will be removed from any real platform and the idiots will cry "Hurr durr it is a private business it can do what it wants" without thinking if it is right or wrong, they are mindless are 10000000x more dangerous than any right wing extremists because they act all innocent untill they have ruined society, atleast a nazi will tell you that he wants you dead and to be silenced.

They hide under the guise of false morals and 'being kind' they are seriously the most dangerous thing we face today and if we do not act soon they will have already destroyed the moral society.
It's hilarious when they fall victim to it themselves though. There was an anti abortion campaigner on another forum and some feminist kept harassing him every time he made a post, saying he was hateful and should be banned from all forums and he couldn't claim "freedom of speech" because private companies can ban whoever they want. Eventually the feminist got banned when the admins got tired of her hijacking almost every thread lol.
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Captain Haddock
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#74
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#74
(Original post by AperfectBalance)
Absolutely, the left are amazing at socially killing you, they make your thoughts now just wrong but unacceptable, you will be removed from any real platform and the idiots will cry "Hurr durr it is a private business it can do what it wants" without thinking if it is right or wrong, they are mindless are 10000000x more dangerous than any right wing extremists because they act all innocent untill they have ruined society, atleast a nazi will tell you that he wants you dead and to be silenced.

They hide under the guise of false morals and 'being kind' they are seriously the most dangerous thing we face today and if we do not act soon they will have already destroyed the moral society.
No I'm pretty sure right wing extremists are more dangerous, dude. For one thing, unlike the reds under your bed, they actually exist. And they kill people.
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SHallowvale
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Captain Haddock)
No I'm pretty sure right wing extremists are more dangerous, dude. For one thing, unlike the reds under your bed, they actually exist. And they kill people.
But they ruin society! Didn't you know?

Thanks to the left we can't be dicks to homosexuals anymore, it's outrageous!
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Cast Iron
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#76
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#76
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Thanks to the left we can't be dicks to homosexuals anymore, it's outrageous!
Let's outlaw anyone being intolerant towards those who are intolerant of homosexuality. "But we can't be dicks to homophobics anymore, it's outrageous!"
Last edited by Cast Iron; 1 week ago
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DSilva
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#77
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#77
(Original post by yudothis)
It's not 'free' if they are harassed into it. Nor am I 'right' nor do I support a fully free market. Just stop. Stop it.
Of course it's a free market. The free market panders to its customers and when a lot of its customers are lefty, sjw types, that's exactly what it will do.

This is what you and others on the right asked for, with endless complaining about government and support for big business. Be careful what you wish for, eh.
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SHallowvale
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Cast Iron)
Let's outlaw anyone being intolerant towards those who are intolerant of homosexuality. "But we can't be dicks to homophobics anymore, it's outrageous!"
Way to totally miss the point.

I'm making fun out of the person who thinks that "the left" have "ruined society".
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Davij038
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Captain Haddock)
No I'm pretty sure right wing extremists are more dangerous, dude. For one thing, unlike the reds under your bed, they actually exist. And they kill people.
All ideologies kill people aside from hardcore pacifists
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Davij038
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#80
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#80
(Original post by DSilva)
Of course it's a free market. The free market panders to its customers and when a lot of its customers are lefty, sjw types, that's exactly what it will do.
That first part is simply not true. As just one particularlly noticeable example- in the entertainment sector (eg films, video games etc) successful franchises that have later embraced sjw narratives have tanked repeatedly, and the response is usually to blame the customers.
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