Is liberal government just a new form of authoritarianism? Watch

DSilva
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Davij038)
That first part is simply not true. As just one particularlly noticeable example- in the entertainment sector (eg films, video games etc) successful franchises that have later embraced sjw narratives have tanked repeatedly, and the response is usually to blame the customers.
Then they will go out of business. The beauty of the free market, we are told.
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Davij038
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#82
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#82
(Original post by SHallowvale)
I assume you're referring to the holocaust in which case it's not illegal to deny it (at least not in the UK). You'll probably find yourself banned on Twitter, Youtube or this forum for trying to deny it but once again these are all privately owned spaces. People don't have to let you say something on them, nor should they.

What can't you say about a certain race and what can't you say about LGBT people?
Fine, but for the Nth time, imagine our positions were reversed and all sites like this were owned by Alt right supporters who shut down any argument you made against their particular world view. I know you don’t care , I don’t expect you to but I do expect you to be honest and acknowledge that it is a forn of oppression against dissenting voices- even if you think those voices are marginal or evil.

what you’re basically saying now is Might makes Right- because you’re ideology is dominant it has the right to trample over others- which is very authoritarian.
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Davij038
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#83
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#83
(Original post by DSilva)
Then they will go out of business. The beauty of the free market, we are told.
That’s how it works in theory, but not in practise.
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Cast Iron
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Davij038)
Fine, but for the Nth time, imagine our positions were reversed and all sites like this were owned by Alt right supporters who shut down any argument you made against their particular world view. I know you don’t care , I don’t expect you to but I do expect you to be honest and acknowledge that it is a forn of oppression against dissenting voices- even if you think those voices are marginal or evil.
"It's their platform they don't need to allow you to post" doesn't really work when platforms on the internet are heavily centralized because then you have a small group effectively dominating the acceptable parameters of discourse. Imagine if Facebook (and Instagram), Twitter, Google, Apple and Microsoft were all ran by old fashioned bigots who didn't like gays.

Searching for a pro LGBT forum? Good luck finding it when Google buries the link on page 9 of their search results (if you're lucky) or just completely leaves it out. But the top results are always ones which are anti LGBT.

Want to organize a Pride march on Facebook? Not a chance, because someone reported your post and Facebook removed it because they decided you were spreading hatred.

Want to confront someone on Twitter and explain why they should support gay rights? It won't happen because Twitter shadowbanned you so others won't see what you are posting. Better yet, you won't actually be informed of that ban so it will appear to you like nobody is agreeing with you or even listening to you.

Finally found the pro LGBT forum you were looking for earlier? Good for you, but it's pretty empty because Microsoft and Google have put warning notices in their browsers when you navigate to this site about the "unacceptable" content and it has scared a lot of people away from the site.

Would any of this be unfair? These are all private platforms, they don't need to let you say anything they don't want.
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SHallowvale
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Davij038)
Fine, but for the Nth time, imagine our positions were reversed and all sites like this were owned by Alt right supporters who shut down any argument you made against their particular world view. I know you don’t care , I don’t expect you to but I do expect you to be honest and acknowledge that it is a forn of oppression against dissenting voices- even if you think those voices are marginal or evil.

what you’re basically saying now is Might makes Right- because you’re ideology is dominant it has the right to trample over others- which is very authoritarian.
If the situation were reversed I'd probably say the same thing. Hell, I don't see myself as being 'oppressed' because I can't go onto Stormfront and talk about why multiculturalism should be accepted; it's a privately owned forum and they can decide what is/is not discussed there. It'd be like asking a party conference to provide a platform for the opposition.

If tomorrow Twitter was suddenly owned by the alt right and they started shutting down and discussion on, say, anything LGBT then I would either not talk about it or move to a different site.
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SHallowvale
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#86
(Original post by Cast Iron)
Would any of this be unfair? These are all private platforms, they don't need to let you say anything they don't want.
No, for the reason you've given.

If you wish to make the argument that Twitter, Google, Facebook, etc, should all become publicly owned utilities then by all means go for it; perhaps then we can have the discussion that, yes, they should not be restricting opposing opinions.

Until then they are all privately owned and if they don't want certain content on their site then they have every right to remove it. This isn't just restricted to political opinions either; they can filter out porn, violent/graphic images, illegal material, copyrighted material, etc. This would all be 'unfair' and 'censorship' to those who want to post porn, violent images, etc, but I don't see anyone here talking about that.
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SHallowvale
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Davij038)
That first part is simply not true. As just one particularlly noticeable example- in the entertainment sector (eg films, video games etc) successful franchises that have later embraced sjw narratives have tanked repeatedly, and the response is usually to blame the customers.
Which franchises have died specifically because they embraced the SJW narrative?
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Davij038
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#88
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Way to totally miss the point.

I'm making fun out of the person who thinks that "the left" have "ruined society".
Society has been measurably worse by hostile anti white forces (which are more overt in supposed left wing parties in the west)?. It has plagued us with the wilful assault on everything decent and good. Maybe things have improved if you’re a refugee, a billionaire or LGBT but for the bulk of society things on the whole have worsened.

They are taking away the joy of childhood- for instance teaching them at an early age about sex - soon leading to more obscene and degenerate practises.

They have caused a crisis in masculinity which is demonised and verified (at least in white men) white men are more depressed and suicidal than before. Many have grown up without a father and the statistics on the life outcomes of such people reflect the consequences of this.

What they have done to women is perhaps the most shocking and depraved. They have desecrated femininity and turned women into the worst aspects of themselves. Modern ‘feminists’ cheer for the right to slaughter their unborn children, wallow in debauchery, and wonder why they’re so unhappy as they slowly die forgotten and alone in their late 40s.

Churches are dying, their ministers having long ago embraced the virus that is killing it and turning their scriptures, teachings and traditions away to slavishly follow the latest fad. Because Jesus would have loved Abortion and LGBT rights obviously.

Society itself is dying. Citizens and subjects have become passive tax payer consumers, the security, trust and familiarity that only homogeneous societies can bring denied to them. Liberalism has hollowed out everything and everyone. It’s a know nothing philosophy that hides nihilism and greed behind the labels of progress and choice

That’s not to say that it’s all been terrible technologically we have progressed. Food has gotten better as has the material standard of living but as the gains in these areas have peaked, and the hostile forces further been radicalised, this has not been enough and only things like credit cards and loans are stopping people from rioting in the streets but are simply a sticking plaster which is unable to keep the tide of mass discontent away..
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Davij038
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#89
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#89
(Original post by SHallowvale)
If the situation were reversed I'd probably say the same thing. Hell, I don't see myself as being 'oppressed' because I can't go onto Stormfront and talk about why multiculturalism should be accepted; it's a privately owned forum and they can decide what is/is not discussed there. It'd be like asking a party conference to provide a platform for the opposition.

If tomorrow Twitter was suddenly owned by the alt right and they started shutting down and discussion on, say, anything LGBT then I would either not talk about it or move to a different site.
No they are not remotely similar. You can actually go on Stormfront and take pro liberal positions.

The difference is the the Internet is a public good provided and maintained by the stateTSR would not be able to exist without the infrastructure provided by the state. You are also making disingenuous arguments that you do not believe in- or do you also think that buisnesss should be able to discriminate against employees for instance not hiring women, it’s their business right?

As for your last point, hah, if that’s really the case then you really don’t care about your beliefs and will just go along with the status quo. Like most liberals you stand for nothing.
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Fullofsurprises
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#90
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(Original post by Davij038)
liberal limits to state power seem to just be another form of authoritarianism but unlike traditional forms take away clear accountability. For instance, in authoritarian regimes the state will arrest you for criticising government policy- in liberal regimes you will be banned from platforms or from making your own by third parties eg twitter and GoDaddy. The liberal state seems to have outsourced its coercive powers to third parties.
Banning people from tweeting because they harass someone or swear a lot - yes, this is an exact equivalent to transportation to a torture centre for speaking out against the government.

Given the scale of such confusions, the PR organisations of China or Saudi Arabia or Russia have an easier job to sow misinformation than might otherwise be the case.
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Davij038
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#91
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#91
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Which franchises have died specifically because they embraced the SJW narrative?
I don’t even want to call it SJW, (these people are Anti Social, have warped views on justice and are certainly not ‘warriors’ of any description) they’re just scum. it’s a Anti White/ western narrative plain and simple. None have died but they’ve certainly lost money and fans.

Star Wars, marvel (comics) , ghostbusters, Battlefield V, The Simpson’s are some that stick to mind.

Ironically, I think this is great for the following


1: many white men (like yourself) seem to have thought if they kept their mouth shut they’d be left alone and could play their video games or whatever. Not so. This (obviously unpopular) mentality has seeped into culture and has infected everything. And when liberalsmske small criticisms they are shut down. You’re going to play our games and if you don’t like them tough. They dont want your money, they’ve got that already. They want your obedience.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/12/1...klash-response

2: This message has not gone die particularly well and driven many into our camp.

3: Grown men should be sodndling less time on video games, lame Hollywood films anyway
Last edited by Davij038; 1 week ago
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Davij038
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Banning people from tweeting because they harass someone or swear a lot - yes, this is an exact equivalent to transportation to a torture centre for speaking out against the government.
I haven’t said about harassment or swearing. I’m talking about genuine Political dissidents.

You hate Trump right? Spoils you say it would be fair to say that he is after fascist outcomes but in thdctsppoingsof a liberal state? Or do you agree with the likes of PJW ‘lol you think trump is literally Hitler lol’




Obviously they’re not directjy equivalent but they are still after the same ends. And it’s not simply s case if being banned/ you may be doxxed, suffer social ostracism such as losing your job and be attacked by left wing mobs.
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SHallowvale
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#93
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#93
(Original post by Davij038)
Society has been measurably worse by hostile anti white forces (which are more overt in supposed left wing parties in the west)?. It has plagued us with the wilful assault on everything decent and good. Maybe things have improved if you’re a refugee, a billionaire or LGBT but for the bulk of society things on the whole have worsened.

They are taking away the joy of childhood- for instance teaching them at an early age about sex - soon leading to more obscene and degenerate practises.

They have caused a crisis in masculinity which is demonised and verified (at least in white men) white men are more depressed and suicidal than before. Many have grown up without a father and the statistics on the life outcomes of such people reflect the consequences of this.

What they have done to women is perhaps the most shocking and depraved. They have desecrated femininity and turned women into the worst aspects of themselves. Modern ‘feminists’ cheer for the right to slaughter their unborn children, wallow in debauchery, and wonder why they’re so unhappy as they slowly die forgotten and alone in their late 40s.

Churches are dying, their ministers having long ago embraced the virus that is killing it and turning their scriptures, teachings and traditions away to slavishly follow the latest fad. Because Jesus would have loved Abortion and LGBT rights obviously.

Society itself is dying. Citizens and subjects have become passive tax payer consumers, the security, trust and familiarity that only homogeneous societies can bring denied to them. Liberalism has hollowed out everything and everyone. It’s a know nothing philosophy that hides nihilism and greed behind the labels of progress and choice

That’s not to say that it’s all been terrible technologically we have progressed. Food has gotten better as has the material standard of living but as the gains in these areas have peaked, and the hostile forces further been radicalised, this has not been enough and only things like credit cards and loans are stopping people from rioting in the streets but are simply a sticking plaster which is unable to keep the tide of mass discontent away..
[Citations Needed]

That said I'm sure the churches you would want to exist are dying (if not already dead) and for good reasons too.

(Original post by Davij038)
No they are not remotely similar. You can actually go on Stormfront and take pro liberal positions.

The difference is the the Internet is a public good provided and maintained by the stateTSR would not be able to exist without the infrastructure provided by the state. You are also making disingenuous arguments that you do not believe in- or do you also think that buisnesss should be able to discriminate against employees for instance not hiring women, it’s their business right?

As for your last point, hah, if that’s really the case then you really don’t care about your beliefs and will just go along with the status quo. Like most liberals you stand for nothing.
Oh? My mistake then. Try somewhere like r/the_donald instead.

The infrastructure which supports the internet and internet based services are two different things. I'm happy for there to be protected classes under the law for certain groups. Censorship and discrimination based on race/sex/etc are also two different things.

And no, my last point does not imply that. There would still be merits to using Twitter even if I couldn't look at anything LGBT related. Hell I don't even use Twitter for much LGBT content anyways. If I wanted to look for LGBT content on Twitter and it was suddenly not allowed then I would look elsewhere.

(Original post by Davij038)
I don’t even want to call it SJW, (these people are Anti Social, have warped views on justice and are certainly not ‘warriors’ of any description) they’re just scum. it’s a Anti White/ western narrative plain and simple. None have died but they’ve certainly lost money and fans.

Star Wars, marvel (comics) , ghostbusters, Battlefield V, The Simpson’s are some that stick to mind.

Ironically, I think this is great for the following


1: many white men (like yourself) seem to have thought if they kept their mouth shut they’d be left alone and could play their video games or whatever. Not so. This (obviously unpopular) mentality has seeped into culture and has infected everything. And when liberalsmske small criticisms they are shut down. You’re going to play our games and if you don’t like them tough. They dont want your money, they’ve got that already. They want your obedience.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/12/1...klash-response

2: This message has not gone die particularly well and driven many into our camp.

3: Grown men should be sodndling less time on video games, lame Hollywood films anyway
SJWs haven't killed Star Wars. It's still incredibly popular even with, God forbid, female and ethnic minority protagonists. What makes you think they've killed the Marvel comics and Ghostbusters? The Simpsons became **** and boring a long time ago, SJWs don't have anything to do with it.

As for Battlefield: EA have generally grown to become hated by much of the gaming community over their involvement with Battlefront 2 so it's no surprise that Battlefield V sold so poorly. Not only that but from looking at reviews it's grown to become a stale series anyway. I'm sure some people didn't buy it because they're so fragile they can't accept female characters ('muh historical inaccuracy') but I see no reason to believe that this was the cause of the poor sales.
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Fullofsurprises
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#94
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#94
(Original post by Davij038)
I haven’t said about harassment or swearing. I’m talking about genuine Political dissidents.

You hate Trump right? Spoils you say it would be fair to say that he is after fascist outcomes but in thdctsppoingsof a liberal state? Or do you agree with the likes of PJW ‘lol you think trump is literally Hitler lol’




Obviously they’re not directjy equivalent but they are still after the same ends. And it’s not simply s case if being banned/ you may be doxxed, suffer social ostracism such as losing your job and be attacked by left wing mobs.
Are you talking about Tommy Robinson? If not, who is your example?
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Davij038
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#95
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Are you talking about Tommy Robinson? If not, who is your example?
So you concede to my first point?

as for an example, there’s plenty eg https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...anada-40922698
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Davij038)
So you concede to my first point?

as for an example, there’s plenty eg https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...anada-40922698
You basically want to defend the right of extreme far-right racists (who given half a chance would love to engage in genocide no doubt) to be anonymous despite exposing their faces in public.

If that's the basis of your OP, then I'm quite glad we've got the sort of authoritarian state liberalism that you claim, although most people call it sensible law and order.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
If that's the basis of your OP, then I'm quite glad we've got the sort of authoritarian state liberalism that you claim, although most people call it sensible law and order.
It's not even that. This pretty much summarises it.
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Davij038
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#98
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
You basically want to defend the right of extreme far-right racists (who given half a chance would love to engage in genocide no doubt) to be anonymous despite exposing their faces in public.

If that's the basis of your OP, then I'm quite glad we've got the sort of authoritarian state liberalism that you claim, although most people call it sensible law and order.
The same privilege is given to Antifa

Im sure the Chinese call their dissidents extremists, and their practises sensible law and order too.
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stoyfan
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(Original post by yudothis)
I don't think you understand how serious this can be for any given individual or a small group relying on say funds, if their funds platform shuts them down because they are flooded with harassment. This has nothing to do with facebook.
If social score has nothing to do with facebook, then why did you provide china's social score as an analogy to being banned on facebook.
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Davij038
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#100
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
It's not even that. This pretty much summarises it.
I think this comics better:

http://stonetoss.com/comic/first-the...-the-fascists/
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