Muslim parents seek removal of gay teacher Watch

generallee
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
I wouldn't mind as much with people saying to move somewhere else where my views are more popular, but when you frame it as "home country" that makes your statement extremely loaded if not outright racist/xenophobic. It presumes I am not from this country (when in fact I am - though even if I am not ethnically English, it makes little difference), and that because of this otherness, I am less entitled than you to have alternative view points or an alternative way of life to you or the rest of society which warrants me not living here. Since you have clarified yourself though, I will let this slip for now.

In any case, as a matter perspective, an outlier to social norm is either a person who is seen as 'ahead of the curve' or they are seen as completely deviant. What I mean to say is, for example, when society was against racial equality in the US, those who promoted racial equality would be considered as deviants and wrong to the majority, though retrospectively we would consider them 'ahead of the curve'. Thus I in turn am deviant to you and wider Western society since I believe in a different moral code, but to the religious, I am just ahead of the curve with respect to British society. As a 'deviant', I could go into self imposed exile to another country as a matter of self-preservation, or conversely I could stay and continue championing my cause and promoting change though you and others dislike it, but that is my decision to make.

Regarding 'integration', that is learning to live alongside one another within the laws of the land and societal context; you are talking about 'assimilation' where we drop our way of life to become more like the natives. We have already integrated by virtue of our social contract assumed through being legal residents/citizens of the UK, but this also facilitates us the right to appeal against laws or policies within the country which affect us; you have no right to effectively tell us to assimilate just because you do not like our views, just as I do not have a right to force you to be a Muslim in the UK nor in a Muslim majority country.
Here you have it, the future of the UK explained, this poster is "ahead of the curve." They admit that they will refuse to "assimilate" and they seek to change society into one in which their interpretation of divine wishes will become the law of the land, and school policy (and of course all others) will be directed by the likes of the parents in that video. The rest of us will become dhimmis.

When people like me, on the political right, point this out we are accused of racism and Islamophobia. But the mask has slipped and it is actually admitted that this is the intention.

A society in which different communities refuse to agree on fundamental matters of policy for the common weal is one of conflict and violence. And it starts in segretated schooling. Look at Northern Ireland. They have built walls to separate Catholics and Protestants there because they can't live peacefully together.
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Jono*
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#62
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#62
I saw this story but it didn't mention them wanting the teacher removed, just the program, am I wrong or are you?
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username4482244
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#63
(Original post by Underscore__)
Most of the places in question were absolute hell holes before the intervention of western countries, let’s not pretend Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya were thriving beacons of equality and economic prosperity prior to western involvement.
And now after western involvement? What are they exactly? You have to be joking.
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generallee
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#64
(Original post by 'ilm)
And now after western involvement? What are they exactly? You have to be joking.
You will be blaming western involvement for the Sunni/Shia schism next. And all the other doctrinal schisms and murderous hatreds within your religion.

The west hasn't helped, no-one denies that, but the fact that so many Islamic countries are $hitholes lies within an unreformed Islam, divided amongst itself. If you continue to blame the west for all your troubles you will never get out of this mess and will continue to fight amongst yourselves, living in poverty and under appalling governance, replete with poor economic performance, corruption and tyranny. What happened to the Arab Spring? Some of us never saw what next transpired coming...

Not.
Last edited by generallee; 2 weeks ago
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username4482244
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#65
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(Original post by generallee)
You will be blaming western involvement for the Sunni/Shia schism next. And all the other murderous dotrrinal schisms and hatreds within your religion.

The west hasn't helped, no-one denies that, but the fact that so many Islamic countries are $hitholes lies within an unreformed Islam, divided amongst itself. If you continue to blame the west for all your troubles you will never get out of this mess and will continue to fight amongst yourselves, living in poverty and under apalling governance. What happened to the Arab Spring? Some of us never saw what happend next coming...

Not.
I wasn't blaming the West for all of my troubles. I'm saying it's ridiculous to suggest that these countries have somehow improved due to Western involvement, when we've actually seen the contrary happen. Whether or not they were "hell holes" before doesn't take away from the fact that they're pretty much pure hell now. When has Western involvement actually led to some improvement?
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mgi
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
I'm homesechooling my kids or moving abroad. The godless state, which has no solid objective basis for its moralistic/social policy beyond subjective value judgements and popularism, is encroaching too far on the rights of parents to raise their kids as they want to be raised.
Yes. Do move abroad as soon as possible. Since when and how did you decide that your morals and values were objective? Sounds like your attitude is haram!
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Decahedron
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#67
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(Original post by Jono*)
I saw this story but it didn't mention them wanting the teacher removed, just the program, am I wrong or are you?
If you actually clicked on the link provided you could answer that question yourself.
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Tootles
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
I'm homesechooling my kids or moving abroad. The godless state, which has no solid objective basis for its moralistic/social policy beyond subjective value judgements and popularism, is encroaching too far on the rights of parents to raise their kids as they want to be raised.
The UK is specifically a Christian state. Just because we don't follow your moon-god doesn't mean we're infidelic.
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the bear
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
To band it around like it gives you moral credulity is a farce and just a repackaged form of the Victorian anthropoligist mindset where the "white man" has come to educate the "savages".
the Victorian era was a time of rapid moral and technological advances. we exported our knowledge and moral rectitude to countries which sorely needed them. if you want to see savagery just check out Daesh & how it treated the people of the Yazidi community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoci...azidis_by_ISIL

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1317056/middle-east
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by Tootles)
The UK is specifically a Christian state. Just because we don't follow your moon-god doesn't mean we're infidelic.
Christianity plays little to no part in state affairs, and of those who say they are Christian in the census, most of them are irreligious, and this will only get worse in the next 2 decades as the older generations die out. As such, the state is godless; the people (which are not the state) are not uniformly godless but it is slowly going that way, and that includes those from the Muslims becoming secular/atheistic too.

Regarding the moon-god comment, either (1) you have no idea about Semitic languages and are generally ignorant of its relation between Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic/Syriac, or (2) you buy too much into the rubbish American/Western missionaries come up with to try discredit Islam and genuinely believe Allah is the name of a moon-god, or perhaps (3) you know it is not true but you like to use it since there is no intellectual way for you to express you don't like me/Muslims/Islam(?)
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username4482244
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#71
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(Original post by Tootles)
The UK is specifically a Christian state. Just because we don't follow your moon-god doesn't mean we're infidelic.
Christianity is as much against homosexuality as Islam.
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Decahedron
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#72
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(Original post by 'ilm)
Christianity is as much against homosexuality as Islam.
No, it isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...affirming_LGBT
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Tootles
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(Original post by 'ilm)
Christianity is as much against homosexuality as Islam.
I never said it wasn't. That's not what I posted.

Decahedron scripture is against homosexuality. But then it's against pretty much everything we else do - we're all sinners, that's the whole point.
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username4482244
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#74
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I'm talking about Christianity Christianity. Not a bunch of denominations that decided to go against their own Bible. There is also a difference between condemning homosexual acts and condemning those who are homosexual. It's the act that's a sin.
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Decahedron
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(Original post by Tootles)
Decahedron scripture is against homosexuality. But then it's against pretty much everything we else do - we're all sinners, that's the whole point.
Of course scripture is, but we have been generally sensible enough to move on from a lot of the old scripture.
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Tootles
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(Original post by Decahedron)
Of course scripture is, but we have been generally sensible enough to move on from a lot of the old scripture.
Explain. Bear in mind we're admonished against it in the NT too, and quite vehemently so by the Apostolic Fathers too.
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999tigger
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#77
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(Original post by 'ilm)
I wasn't blaming the West for all of my troubles. I'm saying it's ridiculous to suggest that these countries have somehow improved due to Western involvement, when we've actually seen the contrary happen. Whether or not they were "hell holes" before doesn't take away from the fact that they're pretty much pure hell now. When has Western involvement actually led to some improvement?
Why have you railroaded this thread so you cna discuss your issues with the west zzzzzzz.
It is about this school and the protest. If you want to go and discuss western forign policy, then go and start another thread or you will be asked to move by the mods.There are thousands of threads complaining about the west already.
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Zamestaneh
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#78
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(Original post by the bear)
the Victorian era was a time of rapid moral and technological advances. we exported our knowledge and moral rectitude to countries which sorely needed them. if you want to see savagery just check out Daesh & how it treated the people of the Yazidi community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoci...azidis_by_ISIL

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1317056/middle-east
This is a biased and rose-tinted reading of history which I have sadly seen many English people have. The British Empire will never be a model for civility or 'moral rectitude' to other countries. There is the Bengal Famine which killed over a million, there were massacres of thousands of peaceful protesters in India, a British capital punishment in India was to strap a man to the front of a cannon and fire a shot through their chest, in Kenya (though this is post-Victorian era and in the last 60 to 70 years) hundreds of thousands were interned in concentration camps and tens of thousands lost their lives when trying to get independence from British rule, concentration camps during the Boer War, and so on.The British Empire was not morally superior to its peers, it was the same, and it cared little for moral rectitude only insofar as public order was concerned... but thanks for the trains, yeah? :rolleyes:

Why would what Daesh do matter to me (regarding my morality)? You may as well have said "Just look at how the Hutus treated the Tutsis in Rawanda" - it has no relevance to my moral position
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Decahedron
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(Original post by Tootles)
Explain. Bear in mind we're admonished against it in the NT too, and quite vehemently so by the Apostolic Fathers too.
The whole Bible is old scripture. From what I see especially of the CoE that is more about the humanitarian side of things, being good to your neighbour rather than hardcore religious docterine.
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the bear
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(Original post by Tootles)
The UK is specifically a Christian state. Just because we don't follow your moon-god doesn't mean we're infidelic.
there is no reliable evidence to link Allah with moon worship. although there were many idols in the Kaaba of Mecca they were removed some 600 years after Christ.
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